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[Joe Giannone]

Heya folks,
After years of digital recording (adats) I’ve decided to go ahead and purchase a used Studer 2” 24 track. The prices on these decks seem ridiculously low on eBay these days, but I’m still confused about which model to go after. Should I go for the A827 because it’s the most recent incarnation, perhaps lending itself to greater parts availability in the future? I’ve heard talk of the A80 actually sounding better than the later models, so that certainly has me thinking I may be better off with a more “vintage” unit. I’m also a little curious about the need for Dolby SR with these decks. Is the NR mandatory with these units in order to avoid big time noise? Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Joe  

[Rail Jon Rogut]

You want an A800 Mk3

An A80 is a headache.. and speed issues will be likely.

Rail

[Former Oceanway drone]

Believe Rail.

Cheers,

Alan Tomlinson

[Joe Giannone]

Thanks for the advice, gentleman! So, assuming I go after a used A800 Mk3, how important is some form of external noise reduction, such as the Dolby SR, with these decks?

[Bill Mueller]

Here's your baby, Sr and all.

http://cgi.ebay.com/wseBayISAPI.dll ViewItem&category=15199&item=3753573992&rd=1

Good luck,

Bill

[Joe Giannone]

I was actually watching that one Bill, but I'm over on the west coast, he's on the east coast of Canada, and he says he won't ship. I was trying to figure out some way I could fly there, get the thing to a shipping company and then fly back, when I came up against the wall of international customs. My head hurt just trying to figure out the jargon Forward Air was spouting, with the kicker being “if the paper work ain’t right, you ain’t gettin’ this across the border.” I suppose I could try driving it across the border myself to avoid whatever customs hassle might ensue, but with the heightened security these days, and that thing looking suspiciously like a nuclear warhead, I may wind up in Canada for an extended period of time.  

[Rail Jon Rogut]

Joe Giannone wrote on Tue, 12 October 2004 18:00

Thanks for the advice, gentleman! So, assuming I go after a used A800 Mk3, how important is some form of external noise reduction, such as the Dolby SR, with these decks?

What kind of music?  For rock - SR wouldn't be desired so you can hit the tape hard and use it for tape compression.

Make sure you can get the tape formulation you like... which will be the main issue.

Personally I prefer the sound of the 800 to the 820 and 827... the 820 wasn't their best machine and was slow to punch.

The 800 also had nicer meters.

Rail

[JamSync]

Joe Giannone wrote on Wed, 13 October 2004 04:59

I was actually watching that one Bill, but I'm over on the west coast, he's on the east coast of Canada, and he says he won't ship. I was trying to figure out some way I could fly there, get the thing to a shipping company and then fly back, when I came up against the wall of international customs. My head hurt just trying to figure out the jargon Forward Air was spouting, with the kicker being ?if the paper work ain?t right, you ain?t gettin? this across the border.? I suppose I could try driving it across the border myself to avoid whatever customs hassle might ensue, but with the heightened security these days, and that thing looking suspiciously like a nuclear warhead, I may wind up in Canada for an extended period of time.

Have you tried these people?

www.cratersandfreighters.com

I've often had them suggested to me for shipping large, fragile (expensive) audio gear and they say they do international shipping.

[Fletcher]

There are several things that do not smell right about the eBay listing http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1 5199&item=3754552315&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW [A-827 somewhere in Canada].

6760 hours, without a head lap?  Yet there is 85% headlife remaining?  How does this guy have any idea of what headlife remains without a "head report", which can only be done by one of the "head lapping" services.  6k+ hours means that if a lapping hasn't been done, it damn well should be... and if it has been done then this guy's ad is full of shit.  Doesn't add up... never been lapped but he's quoting 'remaining headlife'.  My bullshit detector is going off full blast!!

When M-A was in the used equipment business, we would NEVER go within a 100 miles of any tape machine without a head report from JRF Magnetic Sciences.  We would not accept AMP Services nor Sprague Magnetics head reports, only a report from JRF [found one less than reliable report from both Sprague and AMP... end of trust in their abilities].

There are several things you can tell from a head report.  You can tell a lot about the machine's overall maintenance.  Like if the wear pattern on the head isn't consistent, then it was likely the machine didn't have proper maintenance as uneven wear is a direct result of improper transport alignment.  John [R. French of "JRF"] is pretty good at telling you what you're about to get into... so you'll be way ahead of the curve if you consult John.

Getting the machine out of Canada is a snap.  North American Van Lines has a service called "Hi Value / Blanket Wrap".  They show up with a truck on the specified date, wrap the machine in a blanket, load it on the truck, in a week to 10 days it's on the left coast and you're a few hundred dollars less liquid.  They will handle customs clearance and brokerage for you, typically charging a $40-45 clearance fee above the actual duty/taxes etc.

If you're bringing in a machine you want to do it under the "Schedule B Harmonization Code: 8543.69.9660 Amplifiers" which will run the duty rate at 2.6% of the amount on the transit invoice(s) that travel with the machine.  I've driven them across the border on the "Used Diode" Schedule B Harmonization Code [0.00%!!], but you really don't want to fuck around if you're using a common carrier.

It is common for guys to get goofy with the transit invoice to lower duty and taxes.  Don't.  You can only insure the unit for the amount on the transit invoice, and believe you me my brother, you want to insure the shit out of this thing.  Add in a little "pain and suffering" money to the amount so if the thing does get "trashed in transit" you come out ahead.

FWIW, I never had a problem with N. American Van Lines... but there is a first for everything.

Last, in the current market/climate... $12k seems a bit steep for an 827 with no head report on a 'sight unseen' machine.  I have no idea where this thing is, and I have no idea of the owner's temperament... but I wouldn't buy the thing without looking at it, or having a tech [my tech, one who will be very accountable to me should there be a problem kind of a tech] look at the machine.

BTW, I have never believed a Studer hour clock.  I know a 10 year old 827 that to this day only has 745 hours on it... I know a Studer A-800 mkIII that has had 6,200 and change hours on it for the last several years.  Both of these machines have been impeccably maintained, are in absolute "finest kind" condition, but their hour clocks have malfunctioned.  The ONLY way to evaluate a machine is from a head report... it's sort of like analog archeology.

Best of luck with it.

[Joe Giannone]

Thanks very much for all the help! That last machine you linked, Fletcher, the 827 with approx. 6000 hours, isn't the machine that's in Canada, but the listing for the Canadian 820 isn't really any more helpful. The 827's actually pretty close to me, down in Southern Cal. But as you said, it seems like it's priced quite a bit above the current going rate, as most of these decks seem to be closing out in the 5K-7K price range if left to open bidding. I have the feeling I may wind up having to send any heads I get to JRF, getting the real low-down on condition only after I spend the cash, which certainly isn't an ideal situation.
Yep, the machine will be used primarily for Rock, so thanks, Rail, now I don't have to fixate on getting a machine with the SR.

[judah]

Joe Giannone wrote on Tue, 12 October 2004 08:18

Heya folks, After years of digital recording (adats) I’ve decided to go ahead and purchase a used Studer 2” 24 track. The prices on these decks seem ridiculously low on eBay these days, but I’m still confused about which model to go after. Should I go for the A827 because it’s the most recent incarnation, perhaps lending itself to greater parts availability in the future? I’ve heard talk of the A80 actually sounding better than the later models, so that certainly has me thinking I may be better off with a more “vintage” unit. I’m also a little curious about the need for Dolby SR with these decks. Is the NR mandatory with these units in order to avoid big time noise? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Joe

Hi,
can't comment on Studer. I have a shitty Tascam ATR80. It works and sounds fine for me. Carefully manteined by me (align it almost everymorning, very clean). I don't use SR. Record at 15" most of the time and sometimes at 30" (the Tascam at 30" gets much clearer on the bottom, less noise too). I record mostly rock, sometimes jazz and blues and I grow up in the 80' listening all day long to audio cassette. Noise is fine with me. In fact I don't like digital noise. I prefer to hear some kind of noise before the music starts. Anyway, when you have 24 tracks goin' on, full blast, you will NEVER hear any noise. Period. At least if you're carefull with levels and calibration. With lower levels and maybe some less intense part in the song you can use some tricks to keep the noise down a bit (gate or muting). Last but not the least, buy as much Emtec/BASF SM900 you can. They are out of production by now and you need'em. 911 is fine too, depends on genre and attitude.
My euro cent (about 0,0124$)

R.