Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[judah]

Hi,
got an offer for a pair of C451, the new model. I have a couple Oktavas (matched pair with three capsule) and might be interested in abother flavor for SDC.
What do you use the 451 for? Acustic guitars? Drums? Strings?
They are very cheap in these days. I'd really like to give'em a try. Anyone cares to compare them to Josephson C42? Or KM184?

Thanks.

R.

[JohnMcD]

I love the 451's! I always use my stereo pair for overheads. It really makes it easy for me to add sparkle to the cymbals. I'm personally looking to upgrade my stereo overhead mics, but so far I like what I get out of the C451s.

I'd like to hear what other people think as well.

-John

[redelephant]

I like my AKG c451B's. They sound extremely nice coupled with my RNP. Although I am sure there are nicer options out there, they make the best out of every session. I preferred them much more than my AKG 414's.

[judah]

Thanks JohnMcD and redelephant. The reason I'm lookin at C451B is that they are dirty cheap right now. A pair is on the way to me for a little bit more than 600

[carne_de_res]

i find my pair to be brittle sounding.
not that they don't get regular use on acoustic
guitar,backing vocals and many other applications...
i just wish they could work as drum overheads for me.
never liked their sound in that context.

i'd really like to find a pair of mics that
could be in the SAME PRICE RANGE but with a more
natural hi end and more mid range.any recommendations?

[judah]

carne_de_res wrote on Wed, 06 October 2004 19:37

i find my pair to be brittle sounding. not that they don't get regular use on acoustic guitar,backing vocals and many other applications... i just wish they could work as drum overheads for me. never liked their sound in that context. i'd really like to find a pair of mics that could be in the SAME PRICE RANGE but with a more natural hi end and more mid range.any recommendations?

hey italian! how are you? you could bring the C451B with you the next time you come here. if I like them I would buy'em immediately.  

Have you ever used Oktava MC012 for drums overhead? how they compare to the AKG? BTW, I contacted Pearl Microphones in Sweden. They have that special rectangular capsule design. Received a pricelist. Very very interesting. A couple SDC (can't remember the name, T66 maybe) are about 700

[Patrick Brannen]

I love 451's on snare,hat and acoustic guitar. If you're a seperation junkie A.K.A.(control freek) it's nice to have one on each cymble.

[bobkatz]

One of the keys to using a 451 is to realize it can sound bright if you're not careful. But that brightness can also be something to seek after. The distance at which the proximity effect "kicks in" with a 451 is somewhat closer than with comparable cardioids. Use distance as a tone control.

I've had great success on piano with a pair of 451's, not the typical mikes that people would pick for the very reason that they don't seem to have bottom, but hell, maybe it was the combination of the piano, the mikes, the distance, the preamps, the musician, and a bit of my own skill

[judah]

Thanks to all of you. Tested a pair of C451B last saturday with a live band. Compared to Oktava MC012 (matched pair from the Sound Room) in cardioid+pad. Very bright indeed. But I was recording at 15" (SM900 on a Tascam ATR80, +3@250nW) and it worked out great. No EQ. I think I'm gonna keep'em.

Cheers.

R.

[Labs]

Depending on how much your getting them for, you should look into the old modular capsule model. They can be found at good prices from time to time, and their easier to get a good sound from than the new ones. You also get the bonus of being able to add other capsules.

If christmas wasnt coming up I would be getting a few of the blue lollipops to try out on em´.

Gustav

[Fletcher]

judah wrote on Mon, 18 October 2004 02:45

+3@250nW

Did you mean 3db>250nWb/m [3db greater than 250 nano weber's per meter]?  Which is equatable to 325nWb/m, which is a like +5.2 level [355nWb/m being the true "+6" alignment]

[bobkatz]

Fletcher wrote on Wed, 24 November 2004 08:21

judah wrote on Mon, 18 October 2004 02:45  +3@250nW Did you mean 3db>250nWb/m [3db greater than 250 nano weber's per meter]?  Which is equatable to 325nWb/m, which is a like +5.2 level [355nWb/m being the true "+6" alignment]

I usually use the word "over" to help make the language clear. As in


0 VU = +3 dB over 250 nW/M


In NYC this used to be abbreviated on the side of tape boxes as


+4/250

which I admit is as ambiguous as the "at" sign!

BK

[judah]

Fletcher wrote on Wed, 24 November 2004 14:21

judah wrote on Mon, 18 October 2004 02:45  +3@250nW Did you mean 3db>250nWb/m [3db greater than 250 nano weber's per meter]?  Which is equatable to 325nWb/m, which is a like +5.2 level [355nWb/m being the true "+6" alignment]

Yeah, sorry, you got me.  
BTW, I switched to SM900 and SM911 for quite a while now and have yet to find a fully satisfying calibration. I'm still getting too much noise. I know it's analog, I'm very young but tape noise it's no problem to me. But the level I'm getting is defintely too high. I remember you were speakin' higly on teh Basf/Emtec stuff during the good 'ol days at RAP. What calibration do you use? And yeah, right now I'm 355nWb/m with the SM900. Mostly at 30IPS.

R.

[bobkatz]

judah wrote on Thu, 25 November 2004 02:29

Yeah, sorry, you got me.  
BTW, I switched to SM900 and SM911 for quite a while now and have yet to find a fully satisfying calibration. I'm still getting too much noise. I know it's analog, I'm very young but tape noise it's no problem to me. But the level I'm getting is defintely too high. I remember you were speakin' higly on teh Basf/Emtec stuff during the good 'ol days at RAP. What calibration do you use? And yeah, right now I'm 355nWb/m with the SM900. Mostly at 30IPS.

R.[/quote]

Too much noise?  What kind of music?
Two track?  1/4" or 1/2"?  Or Multitrack?  

BK

[Level]

451's are ruthless. Drag out your best Mic pre only. They tend to push them somewhat "brisk" and the mic pre makes all the difference in the 451's. For some reason, my console mic pres work well with them. The pres in my console tend to roll off at 25K rather quick (-11 at 37K but flat at 21K signal injected.)

[Jan Folkson]

I've got a pair of the 'new' 451s and usually use them with an Avalon 2022.  Used mostly on acoustic guitar, percussion and drum overheads, they provide a beautiful sound, not harsh in the least.

[judah]

bobkatz wrote on Thu, 25 November 2004 20:37

judah wrote on Thu, 25 November 2004 02:29 Yeah, sorry, you got me.   BTW, I switched to SM900 and SM911 for quite a while now and have yet to find a fully satisfying calibration. I'm still getting too much noise. I know it's analog, I'm very young but tape noise it's no problem to me. But the level I'm getting is defintely too high. I remember you were speakin' higly on teh Basf/Emtec stuff during the good 'ol days at RAP. What calibration do you use? And yeah, right now I'm 355nWb/m with the SM900. Mostly at 30IPS. R.

Too much noise?  What kind of music?
Two track?  1/4" or 1/2"?  Or Multitrack?  

BK[/quote]

Hi Bob,
yeah it's a multitrack situation. Tascam ATR80. The machine is in fine condition, cleaned up every morning. I'm having some problem because I'm running it unbalanced. My desk is a D&R 4000 that has a rather strange configuration. It can accept both +4 and -10 on the same 1/4" tape return and tape out. Anyway, there must be something in my calibration that prevents the machine to sound at her best.
BTW, I'm usually working with no more than 16 tracks even if I have 24. ANd when I'm saying there's too much noise, I mean that is very audible even with just one track. Very audible.

R.

[bobkatz]

judah wrote on Fri, 26 November 2004 03:23

Hi Bob, yeah it's a multitrack situation. Tascam ATR80. The machine is in fine condition, cleaned up every morning.

Hi, Judah. Is this a 2" machine? I didn't know Tascam made any wide format machines. If it's less than 2" for 24 track you will need noise reduction.

But regardless, you wrote...

Quote:

BTW, I'm usually working with no more than 16 tracks even if I have 24. ANd when I'm saying there's too much noise, I mean that is very audible even with just one track. Very audible. R.

If it's a 1" machine without noise reduction, the noise on one track should be "audible" but not very audible. If it's 2" 24 track at 30 IPS, the noise on one track should be even less, but still audible at normal gains. Unless you're doing very hard rock and saturating, I always found 24 track even at 30 IPS to be iffy in terms of noise. But that was in the days of grand master at +3 over 250 nW/M. Now with GP 9 if you push it a little more you can get a better SNR (I would never go above +6 over 250 if using a VU meter).

Anyway, if you really have a 2" machine and the noise is bothersome on one track, I suggest you try John Klett's forum for some step-by-step maintenance approaches. Have you demagnetized the heads and guides properly with an Annis brand demagnetizer?  (Accept no substitutes, Annis is the only brand to consider).

BK

[judah]

bobkatz wrote on Sat, 27 November 2004 21:11

judah wrote on Fri, 26 November 2004 03:23 Hi Bob, yeah it's a multitrack situation. Tascam ATR80. The machine is in fine condition, cleaned up every morning. Hi, Judah. Is this a 2" machine? I didn't know Tascam made any wide format machines. If it's less than 2" for 24 track you will need noise reduction. But regardless, you wrote... Quote: BTW, I'm usually working with no more than 16 tracks even if I have 24. ANd when I'm saying there's too much noise, I mean that is very audible even with just one track. Very audible. R. If it's a 1" machine without noise reduction, the noise on one track should be "audible" but not very audible. If it's 2" 24 track at 30 IPS, the noise on one track should be even less, but still audible at normal gains. Unless you're doing very hard rock and saturating, I always found 24 track even at 30 IPS to be iffy in terms of noise. But that was in the days of grand master at +3 over 250 nW/M. Now with GP 9 if you push it a little more you can get a better SNR (I would never go above +6 over 250 if using a VU meter). Anyway, if you really have a 2" machine and the noise is bothersome on one track, I suggest you try John Klett's forum for some step-by-step maintenance approaches. Have you demagnetized the heads and guides properly with an Annis brand demagnetizer?  (Accept no substitutes, Annis is the only brand to consider). BK

Hi Bob,
thanks for your input. In fact it's the only 2" Tascam ever produced. It's a nice machine, very easy on manteinance, but the calibration process is not very friendly. I'm using SM900 lately and with about 2dB of overbias, calibrated at 355nWb/m is lamost impossible to bring the recording level to zero. Some tracks do some others don't. And that