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Author Topic: The future of U47  (Read 4366 times)

Mickeyrouse

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The future of U47
« on: May 24, 2014, 12:14:55 AM »

I have lusted after a Neumann u47 since they were called Telefunken. I daily kick myself when I recall seeing one listed on a mailout almost 50 years ago for one for $295 from a place in upstate New York called Boynton Studio. Over the years I bought a lot of gear from them like Pultec EQH-2 and EQP-1 for $200 each. But I passed on that old U47 because, after all, it WAS used, and transistors were the new thing, and I was even more younger and ignorant than I am now.
 But now, being, older, and wiser(!) and with a little cash available, temptation again beckons.

Except now, I can't help but wonder: how long can these things last? Sure, the body will never wear out, and the capsule can be re-skinned, but what about that tube? I mean, the last ones were manufactured in something like 1961, and even though near-miraculous techniques have been developed to rejuvenate and extend the tube life, at some point- and for a 50 year-old vacuum  tube- something's got to fail: filaments, pins, gas, and all the other tube ills that encouraged development of solid state  to begin with.  In other words, could we be at the end of VF14 service and not know it?
    The obvious response is: if that's the case, then do what Neumann suggested in the early sixties: go to nuvistors, or other mods such as the AC701.
     Or the other question: what are the real attributes of the mythical VF14- are they so mysterious that no one really gets the secret mojo?
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klaus

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The Future of The U47
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2014, 01:05:08 AM »

You touch on a lot of issues, all of which have already been discussed ad infinitum here, there, and everywhere.
If you want that ultra-deep knowledge, or get overwhelmed with utter confusion, do a Google search on:
* VF14
* U47 prices
* U47 Nuvistor mods

Here is the short version, and, as usual, from a guy who's seen it all, up close, and for decades, and does not really want to start the whole discussion from scratch, again.

VF14 last forever, unless you a. drop the damn things on a hard surface, b. put too much or too little heater supply into them. They do not operate like other vacuum tubes, but in a U47 run at a fraction of their rated specs. That's why the usual expectations don't apply to this tube in this application.

EF 14, UF 14 and Nuvistors are poor substitutes for VF14. The magical U47 formula requires a VF14, nothing short. (Nuvistors were always lousy in any condenser mic ever equipped with them, as lovely as they are in the Ampex MR70 tape recorder electronics.)

AC 701 suck out the U47 sound, even more than the afore mentioned tube types. So, stick with VF14 if you want the genuine U47 sound.

VF14 last forever, and U47 last forever, too. Especially those equipped with Polyester/Mylar K47. ("Reskinning" is a dirty word in my neighborhood. Lots of disappointing products, none of which capable of reproducing the magic of the Neumann originals.)

So, to sum it up, we are NOT at the end of the service life for these mics. I know of plenty of VF14, used and new. But those who own them would not want to be publicly named. And Neumann still makes the K47.

U47 prices are right in line with current prices for the very best recording equipment. If you adjust for inflation, a new U47 cost ca. $4500.- already in 1955. Even today, most people cannot afford such prices for mics. Mic sales get thin beyond $3500.- Besides, supply and demand regulate prices nicely in an open, unregulated market. If you have enough passion and dough, you will save, and wait, and buy the 47.

The attribute that makes the sound of a genuine U47 unique and emotionally so attractive is the synergy of capsule, tube, transformer, voltages and, to a minor degree, certain electronic components, wiring and housing shape.
I think the problem never was that these attributes are "mystical" or "mysterious" and therefore could not be determined; aside of the capsule, whose construction and assembly properties remain tightly under lid at Sennheiser, theses qualities in a mic are just not easy or cost-effective to reproduce. 
Start-up cost for a VF14 production run were $500,000+ as calculated among the heads of Neumann in 1999- I was present! Today that would be considerably more.  Who wants to invest that kind of cash to sell a couple of thousand (at most) tubes? The same calculation goes into all other vital components of a U47. It just does not pencil out, even if you cracked some of the magic formulas.

I guess, you get the idea.
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German Masterworks®
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Mickeyrouse

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Re: The future of U47
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2014, 01:27:16 AM »

There is hope for a future even yet.
   Thanks for re-hashing obviously over-plowed ground.
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Piedpiper

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Re: The future of U47
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2014, 01:15:21 PM »

great synopsis! thanks for spelling it out in short authoritative form!
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hasbeen

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Re: The Future of The U47
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2014, 09:33:00 PM »

And Neumann still makes the K47.


Yes but do you think getting a newly made Neumann K47 as a replacement capsule in an old U47 would sound as good as the original?
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soapfoot

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Re: The future of U47
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2014, 08:54:15 AM »

I can't speak to the K47, but we installed a brand-new (2013) K67 in one of our U67s recently, and it's pretty much indistinguishable, sonically, from the original K67s in our other two U67s.

I understand there was a period of time when this may not have been the case, but as of right now, the K87/K67s seem to be pretty good.
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klaus

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Re: The Future of The U47
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2014, 11:47:00 AM »

Yes but do you think getting a newly-made Neumann K47 as a replacement capsule in an old U47 would sound as good as the original?

The manufacturing tolerance of this and every high-quality condenser capsule is hard to reign in, so my answer, derived from many years of close observation would be:
Many of them don't. But some of the currently-made K47/49 have the potential to sound every bit as sexy, authentic, and complementary to the classic, enticing sound of a U47 as K47/49 of past decades did.
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Klaus Heyne
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