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Author Topic: E80F tube in a U67 - Has anyone tried this?  (Read 6942 times)

jimmymansfield

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E80F tube in a U67 - Has anyone tried this?
« on: July 24, 2014, 12:47:29 AM »

Hello fellow forum members! It is a pleasure to share my first ever post in the Mic Lab with you all. I would like to know if it is possible to safely re-tube a U67 microphone with an Amperex 6084, or other E80F type tubes that are 65.2mm in length compared to the standard EF86 tubes that are 54.1mm. I am concerned because although though the longer E80F tube technically fits into a U67, the top of the tube is so close to the wires at the C12, C13, C14, and C1 solder points that I am afraid the heat generated by the tube may damage or partially melt the shielding of the wires.

I am also under the impression that for a U67, E80F type tubes may offer a sonic improvement over an EF86. This is based off of the following post from Oliver Archut - http://www.neumann.com/forums/view.php?bn=neumann_archive&key=1015336865&v=f

Here is a link to a few pictures I have taken of an E80F installed in a U67. I will refrain from turning the microphone on until I hear back from my fellow board members.

https://db.tt/29z7Zuko (Hopefully this dropbox link to the pictures is working correctly.)

Thanks,

Jimmy Mansfield
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Jimmy Mansfield
Murfreesboro Recording
http://murfreesbororecordingstudio.com/

klaus

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Re: E80F tube in a U67 - Has anyone tried this?
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2014, 01:31:03 PM »

Yes I have tried the E80F tube, though not the Heintze & Kaufmann version, but two versions made by Telefunken: I tested the long- and the short glass body versions (yours is the long version, the short version's glass envelope is identical in dimensions with that of the EF86 and EF806S made by Telefunken).

During the design and early production phases of the Brauner KHE (Klaus Heyne Edition), I considered that tube type, as an alternative to the EF86, and made long-term tests. Conclusion: all E80F draw slightly larger heater current, and power supplies needed to be adjusted accordingly. The long envelope version had a distinctly different and unpleasant midrange behavior- it was constricted, congested and plain harsh sounding in the mid frequencies, and in my opinion, unusable in a high-end microphone. (I never tested the Heintze & Kaufmann-made version you show in your pictures.)

However, its shorter envelope sibling, also made by Telefunken, and also with gold-plated pins, was excellent, and its performance on-par with the best EF86 I had used. It had very appealing, fast, frequency-balanced, audio, was super quiet, and, aside of one replacement in 10 years, has held up well in all the KHE mics it was initially installed.

It would be a good idea for you to compare the sound of the long-body version in your mic to a short-body E80F (if you can find one) or a very good, preferably Telefunken-made, EF86/806S, to ascertain whether my observations about the different tonality of the two sizes (and differing construction of anodes and filaments) in that tube are also experienced by you.

Best regards,
KH
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Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks®
www.GermanMasterworks.com

polypals

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Re: E80F tube in a U67 - Has anyone tried this?
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2014, 05:05:02 PM »

Having used the U67 since the seventies I never wondered what would happen if the mike was fitted with another EF86 tube than the usual Philips one.
Philips because I started my job as balance engineer at Polygram. We got these tubes in bulk from Philips.

Noise was never an issue although I know Neumann used to test and select the EF86 tubes they bought from Telefunken in those days.
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klaus

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Re: E80F tube in a U67 - Has anyone tried this?
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2014, 05:08:31 PM »

Dutch Philips EF86, a derivative of the original Mullard construction, were very nice tubes. Some prefer their tonality or timbre to that of Telefunken's version which was exclusively installed by Neumann as OEM, and offered as sole replacement and spares.
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Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks®
www.GermanMasterworks.com

polypals

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Re: E80F tube in a U67 - Has anyone tried this?
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2014, 09:08:20 PM »

That brings up a question that goes a lot further into the design and deliberate choice of components by Neumann. Knowing the existing relationship between Telefunken and Neumann it is obvious Neumann ordered thei EF 86 from Telefunken.

Forty years ago nobody even thought about the possible influence the make of EF 86 tube could have on the performance of the U67.
We just ordered these tubes in bulk, a hundred EF 86 in a box and replaced the ones that were exhausted in the U67 mikes we used.

Of course I am curious to hear for myself what Klaus describes as difference in performance.
Need to get my hands on a good Telefunken tube.

That brings me back to the tubes. The Philips one is a different construction compared to the 
Telefunken one. Philips EF 86 show a sort of mesh element where the Telefunken one seems to have a solid plate.
A couple of years ago I found a quantity of unused Philips EF 86 tubes that I keep as spares for my U67 mikes.
Lets see how long it takes to find a decent Telefunken one.
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