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Author Topic: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )  (Read 10869 times)

BiigNiick

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Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2014, 12:16:00 pm »

Thanks for the appraisal, Nick. That's very weird about the header. Can I ask which software was telling you that? Was it in the .zip unarchiving, or a DAW/editor? In 4 1/2 years of professional service, this is the first time anyone has ever mentioned anything like this, so obviously I am quite concerned! Maybe time I updated my 7Zip?


the file i downloaded from dropbox wasn't zipped...  i think.  actually, i don't remember if it was zipped or not.  sample manager showed the error.  every other daw i had just ignored the error and just assumed the end of file was the end of the recording.  i would not think it's any zip problem, because they have an extra CRC check inside the zip.  everything needs to be bit accurate or the zip won't unarchive.  i've found sample manager to be the pickiest of all the programs.  they're a real stickler for all the header info being correct.  they can also correct many of the problems too.


 - nick

fuse

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Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2014, 02:01:38 pm »

As to my techniques.

I've used R8brain to downsample to 44.1khz.
From there I ran it through:
Shadow Hills Mastering UAD plugin with some subtle compression on both optical and discrete channels, more to do with the coloring than compression
Manley Massive Passive 2 notches on low band a 150Hz and 9 Notches at high band at 3k9kHz
Voxengo Elephant 3 with -0.3 db Limit and 16bit dithering
Intentionally kept it at K-14(ish) range
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Hermetech Mastering

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Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2014, 02:53:50 pm »


the file i downloaded from dropbox wasn't zipped...  i think.  actually, i don't remember if it was zipped or not.  sample manager showed the error.  every other daw i had just ignored the error and just assumed the end of file was the end of the recording.  i would not think it's any zip problem, because they have an extra CRC check inside the zip.  everything needs to be bit accurate or the zip won't unarchive.  i've found sample manager to be the pickiest of all the programs.  they're a real stickler for all the header info being correct.  they can also correct many of the problems too.


 - nick

Thanks Nick, yes, of course you are right, it wasn't zipped, I just uploaded the .wav. In every day work I always .zip it for clients, but for WUMPs it seems everyone just uploads the raw .wavs. Anyway, very weird, I will investigate further!

KAyo

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Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2014, 05:57:32 pm »


KAyo     -17.3      -0
nice and open sounding.  at first listen, i though it was a little constricted in the louder sections, but i like how it tightened in the low mid's in those sections.  i like how it snaps focus in on the soloist.  very musical sounding.



Hi BiigNiick,

Thanks for your feedback.
I did seek musicality and emotion on my EQ choices. I aimed to take it away from it's 2 Dimensional roots to a more florescence and expansive place. The MD3 really helped envelope that mid-range with it's classy compression etc.. Big fan of the Sonalksis too.


Cheers mate,
KAyo
 
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BiigNiick

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Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2014, 02:05:14 pm »

it has come to my attention that i neglected to critique one of the entries.  here you go Alex-P ;-P
WUMP has been a lot of fun this go around.  hopefully we'll have another great learning experience summer/fall 2014.  and thanks KAyo for organizing the WUMP.  definitely a great thing we've got going on with this community of engineers.  everyone, keep up the good work!


thanks,
 - nick
 



 Alex-P        -19.4        -0.3
very nice.  i liked the retention of the dynamics of the song.  also, i like where you were going with making the soloist a little less strident in the 2k range, but it may have been too much.  i feel it tucks the soloist back into the orchestra and i feel i loose him in some of the more dense portions.  overall, very good.







ArtSta

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Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2014, 05:28:10 pm »

First of all, thank you all who participated already (and in the future) for feedback!
Thank you KAyo for letting this happened!

Gentlemen, I have a problem to put my comments on your work. It's pretty tough to do it right without knowing everybody's approach and without the mix in context.

Ok, it's not that uncommon to get live recording like this and as usual there are things that would require artist attention (and questions to be answered), including pointing him to some reference performances, to make sure he would really want the master in the way the mix/recording is done. To just call a few issues: outbalanced mids (including strong recording room resonances), the weird differences (for the genre) between mid and side channels, some level drops (like that one at 2'09"- compressor with wrong timing used ?), etc.

Given the Wump description to keep it real, clean and pleasurable to listen, even more questions come to mind :).

Finally, some masters suffered, including mine, from the static eq settings that simply do not work for this track.

That being said, I can only comment what I like and what I do not, which is pretty subjective and I am not sure it's appropriate. The comments could be quite different with known assumptions (decisions are already known) that everybody has taken prior to master this track.
But well, here we go.

BiigNiick:
I like the overall warmth of the track and snappiness of percussion. The track is now a bit more open than a mix, a little bit heavier, which is rather good.
I don't like the main solo instrument sections. They seem to be filtered too much, however it's not that evident as it sounds here. I don't like the boxiness- eq settings bring even more of it.

mmara:
I like how this track sounds. Indeed like an early am radio, however in a more musical way. The music just flows all the way through the whole track. I bought it, even if it's limited in bands.

HermetechMastering:
I like how this master sounds, looks like in a more elegant way than mix, even with a slight warmth deficiency.
I don't like the main solo instrument sections like in BiigNiicks master (sound a bit too artificial- some notes have slightly unreal frequency balance). And of course, I don't like the overall boxiness. Maybe the track is too light to me (some bass notes are lost). Your wav file seems to be shifted a couple of samples forward (maybe this is side effect of an issue reported by Nick ?).

Michael Hynes:
I like quieter sections because of the sound stage created by your decisions. Looks like the master is a bit dark in comparison to the mix, but to me this is actually not a bad thing having the mix in mind and the final result.
I don't like louder sections. Seems like some dynamics is lost then. I don't like the boxiness.

fuse:
Very nice :). I like how the track sounds. Still some boxiness left, but not that apparent. What I miss is a bottom end, just a touch, well, maybe two touches ;-).

KAyo:
I like the openess of the master and its smoothness.
I don't like the slight dynamics lost (like that one in 1'58"). I don't like the boxiness left.

Alex-P:
I like the dynamics. Interesting.
I don't like the loss of clarity (I read about your speakers replacement- maybe this is it). I don't like the boxiness, some parts bring even more of it.
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KAyo

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Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2014, 06:44:29 pm »

Thanks everybody! 8)

As said before, "Every single WUMP hosted, has been a good learning and test ground etc". no question about it.

Our next will be mid year .. we already have a Classical Guitar track from Dana, so lookout for my shout out then.


Regards,
KAyo

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KAyo

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Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
« Reply #37 on: March 25, 2014, 08:56:06 am »

As to my techniques.

I've used R8brain to downsample to 44.1khz.
From there I ran it through:
Shadow Hills Mastering UAD plugin with some subtle compression on both optical and discrete channels, more to do with the coloring than compression
Manley Massive Passive 2 notches on low band a 150Hz and 9 Notches at high band at 3k9kHz
Voxengo Elephant 3 with -0.3 db Limit and 16bit dithering
Intentionally kept it at K-14(ish) range

Hi fuse,

Was the "Manley Massive Passive" also a UAD plug?

KAyo
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fuse

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Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
« Reply #38 on: March 25, 2014, 06:49:53 pm »

Hi fuse,

Was the "Manley Massive Passive" also a UAD plug?

KAyo

I used the hardware.
But I also have the plugin.
Love it to bits on mixes.
But for the nice analogue sound I prefer the hardware.
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alex-p

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Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
« Reply #39 on: March 29, 2014, 11:00:05 pm »

hi everyone,

sorry for the delay as i wanted to get to know better the room before giving any insights

that wump was really nice for me as my clients are rather Pop, Hip Hop, Afrobeat and EDM producers, so i was excited to get to work on this classy piece.
i learn a lot about the room as well thru the comments of everyone here.

here is some observation i made listening to all the masters

BiigNiick: i like a lot the big soundstage and the realism of the track, the players seems to be here in the room, interesting volume/ dynamic.

Fuse: i like the quiet section, but the rest is somehow really bright (some kind of sharpness in the top end) i respect the k14 choice (we have a volume control made for this after all)

Michael Hynes: this one is slightly darker and maybe the dynamics is slightly restrained but nice to listen to in a cool atmoshere (like a classy bar sharing a cocktail with someone)

Kayo: nice also, except maybe missing a little warmth and slightly too much dynamic restrained but close to the BiigNiick's (even though BiigNiick has a bigger soundstage )

ArtSta: in the system i listen to there is a lot of low freq info which tend to cover the rest ( this room is big and the playback system goes really low) it sounds interesting cause of the low but i don't have enough knowledge of this music to tell if it's too much or just a little too much, i miss also a little mid.
the dynamic is nice, it's involving!

Hermetech Mastering: nice dynamic but i miss the warmth. it become a bit edgy (because of the missing midlow low freq) even though edgy is too strong of a word in this case.

mmarra: i like the tone (it's the one i prefer after BiigNiick) i miss a little bit of snapiness and dynamic but not much!

mine: is missing some hi-freq and some definition overall. i like it better when i am listening it really loud, which is sign of dullness, i actually made it thinking about the '' i listen to it LOUD'' people, i guess i went a little bit too far....(leaving aside the speaker's swap)

hope no-one take my comments too personal, as i know that one track doesn't show the average of most ME, having said that, the level of this wump was really good and it was hard to actually ''prefer'' a master over other as all were really good in many ways, i never felt i prefer the mix over any master! i speak about the overall results (tone, dynamic, loudness pleasure of listening to it....) gain over the mix.

looking forward to the next one!

have a good sunday all.

Alex

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ArtSta

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Re: WUMP 27 ( Discussions & Techniques )
« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2014, 10:10:49 am »

ArtSta: in the system i listen to there is a lot of low freq info which tend to cover the rest ( this room is big and the playback system goes really low) it sounds interesting cause of the low but i don't have enough knowledge of this music to tell if it's too much or just a little too much, i miss also a little mid.
the dynamic is nice, it's involving!

Thank you Alex!
I am ready to discuss/investigate this issue in more details. Yeah, I agree it's maybe just too much. As far as I remember the case, the lowest note being played is A#1 so it can be easily reproduced by any reasonable speaker system (my system gives up (-3dB) just at 12Hz), but the mix seems to expose F2-G2 (and occasionally C2) notes a little too high (especially after trying to lift the lows) and I suppose this is what you're hearing. I left it as it is, because I decided to get as little artificial balance as possible (most instruments in the mix are there).

Art

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