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[Kyle Malenfant]

Hi all,

I've been a member and active live sound engineer for quite a while, and this is my first post here in the recording forums...looking to start offering multi-track recording as a service for my live shows. 

I'm not too sure where to start hardware/software wise..I have a MacBook Pro, 500GB SSD, 8GB Ram, and 2.7 quad processor.

I'd like to be able to record 16-24 simultaneous tracks from my board's channel direct outs and then mix it down later back in my office.  I've had quite a few requests for this and now want to capitalize on the opportunity. 

What software is best suited for my needs?  I'm not able to spend the ProTools price and have been guided to look at Ableton and Logic as options.  I don't intend on doing heavy plug-ins or mastering outside of just making a clean mix of the inputs to give back to the customer.

My budget is not huge...not sure what a realistic number is to shoot for, though I'd like to keep it considerably low.  I'm mostly mixing these shows for amateur bands, churches, talent shows etc and have been using Audacity to record a master mix and now the clients want to spend a little more for a better recording.

Suggestions on software and hardware would be appreciated.  Thanks so much in advance!

[Dinogi]

May I humbly suggest Reaper. Free to download and use for sixty days, and apparently it will keep working after that. The trial software is fully functional without restrictions, although updates will require that you buy the license. I recently acquired it and was so impressed that I paid $60 for the license after three days. They have a great forum community who can help you with any issues you may encounter. As for the interface, getting 16 or more channels will probably require purchasing a couple or three items. My ancient system uses an old MOTU 828ii with an Alesis AI3 connected through the optical ADAT connection on the MOTU. I have 16 line level inputs which are used more as a routing switcher rather than for multitrack recording. I have the direct outs of the first eight channels of a Soundcraft GB4-16 mixer going to the AI3 and have stand-alone preamps connected to the inputs of the MOTU. I hope this is useful information for you....olduncledino
PS: Get an external drive for your media!

[Fletcher]

Reaper will be an excellent software to get you started... you're going to need A/D [analog to digital] converters to get the audio from the analog domain into the computer.  A company called Lynx makes some relatively inexpensive, and indeed professional quality converters that will be worthy of your investigation.

All and all you can probably get started with some kind of "live recording" rig for somewhere in the neighborhood of $3k [and probably a fair bit less if you look for used units].

I hope this is of some assistance.

Peace

[Kyle Malenfant]

Thank you both for your input...I'll do some research on Reaper.  I've been looking at the hardware/software put out by Presonous, specifically the Studiolive 24.4.2 with the bundled Capture software.  Or, more modularly the Audiobox 1818VSL (piggyback 2 of them through the optical connection) and using Capture as well.

This seems like a relatively inexpensive way to get my feet wet and offer some basic multitrack recordings with the headroom to get more in-depth as my skill adapts.

Thoughts on this vs Reaper?

[Dinogi]

Do you really need a mixer if the one you're using is doing the job? The Presonus may simplify the initial setup by not having to connect and test stand alone AD, but will it perform the live mix duties as well as what you already have? Does it allow for enough separate signals to the computer? Only you will know if the Studio live mixer is right for you. As I have no experience with the Audiobox, that's also something you'll have to look into yourself. As far as DAW software, all of them do essentially the same thing with the big difference being how they handle mixing and editing. Working with a laptop sort of limits your choices as far as ADDA goes. The few folks I know use multiple onboard PCI cards like the M-Audio Delta 10 10, or something like the ridiculously expensive Apogee Symphony system. That type of interface won't work with a laptop without some adaptation. It would seem you need to research which USB2/3/firewire interfaces allow for that many inputs. olduncledino

[Jim Williams]

You only have one chance for a PC to screw up a live recording.

I would suggest a used Alesis HD24XR. Grab three 8 channel TRS snakes from
www.mcmelectronics.com
for about $25 each.

Patch it in, push record and enjoy the show. No PC's, no software, no "booting up", no computer "interfaces", no crashes and perfect reliability.

The whole shebang should be available for under $1000. Even less if you go with the non-XR version of Alesis.

Or, go with the headaches and disappointments of PC's "live".

[DarinK]

Along the same lines as the Alesis HD24XR is the JoeCo Blackbox.  It accepts analog inputs, and uses USB2 drives so you can transfer the recordings to your computer later for mixing with Reaper.

[Dinogi]

Along the same lines as the Alesis HD24XR is the JoeCo Blackbox.  It accepts analog inputs, and uses USB2 drives so you can transfer the recordings to your computer later for mixing with Reaper.

And they're still being made as opposed to the Alesis product. I would be leery of depending on a previously used product that is already obsolete. Can you trust the drives that come with it, if it even comes with any? You might be wise to replace them right off. There could be issues with finding compatible ones. If your a professional technician like Mr. Williams perhaps it's not such a big risk. If you're just a regular guy trying to add recording to your PA service you might want to consider something else. The JoeCo products were designed for the exact purpose you are looking for although they're kind of expensive. It sure gets complicated quickly don't it?...oud

[Kyle Malenfant]

Thanks all. I looked into both of those units and the simplified approach is appealing. I suppose I was intrigued by the Presonus StudioLive as my analoge Mackie mixers require a lot of outboard processing for EQs, limiters, gates, delay, effects etc.

Should I really be that wary of relying on a computer for recording?

I appreciate the heads up on the Alesis unit and the JoeCo is great but a bit out of my price range.

It definitely gets complicated and I really appreciate the advice given.

[Dinogi]

The idea behind the Alesis and the JoeCo is to give you a dedicated, reliable, and simple to operate way to capture live performances. Many folks have used the alesis successfully for many years so they are a fairly well proven commodity. Just be sure to check into the alesis on the web in case you need to replace the drives at some point as I imagine you will. I seem to recall that there are some issues related to replacing the drives on those things. You would hate to end up with a thousand dollar night light....oud

[Fletcher]

I have a dear friend who has a VERY well known mobile recording truck [and has been doing remote work on a very high level -- as in more Grammy® awards and platinum record plaques than ANYONE else I know in the business kind of high level] who is running the Alesis units for storage.

At his level of the game you can't screw up [or it can cost tens of thousands of dollars... if not more]... so I don't think reliability is a serious issue with those despite the Alesis name being attached to the units.

He does use other converters on the way in and the way out of those things... but they are in use.

Peace

[Jim Williams]

Alesisi makes SATA drive caddies so you will not be hunting for discontinued PATA drives. I have some made by Magic Sound. They fit 2.5" laptop drives, even SSD's which are very reliable and silent in operation.

The JoeCo boxes have other limitations, like levels, no dubbing, no edits, to interfacing. It also used lower grade Crystal converter chips compared to the AKM's used in the Alesis. The HD24XR is bit accurate so it's never out of date, just jack in a super-duper converter and it sounds like that.

I'm on my 4th generation of outboard converters with mine. I bought one of the first ones, before the HD version came out. I installed the EC-2 upgrade kit (I got the first one) and have never looked back.

If it's good enough for Hewitt and Co, it ought to work for you too.

[Kyle Malenfant]

I see a lot of the HD 24XRs on ebay and various used sites, along with the drive caddies and such.  So after the unit records the performance, is there an interface required to transfer the date to my laptop on which I would use Reaper (for example) for the mix down?

[Dinogi]

Alesisi makes SATA drive caddies so you will not be hunting for discontinued PATA drives.

That was the issue I remember hearing about. Good to know that these units are still viable, and updatable, even after the manufacturer has stopped making them. You can't say that about a five year old Mac. Being able to secure one of these used, and have it work, certainly makes them a bargain. You have me considering one! One thing I'll ask on Kyle's behalf is if theres some firmware update or other magic incantations necessary to make the SATA drives work or are they plug and play?...oud 

[bigbadbez]

Hi there.

A question I'm fairly happy dealing with, as I've been considering this very option - Macbook plus DAW plus I/O for location/live recording.

I think the tricky part is deciding how much I/O you're going to need regularly, and of course how much you can afford to spend on what may end up being a bit of a punt.

I've been looking at second hand Mackie Onyx 1640is and Allen & Heath ZED R-16s (the Presonus linked above is the same class of board) as I've familiarity with both manufacturers, and I'm looking to start building my setup based around live recording. I figured I'd need a minimum 16ch I/O to get started - seems you're in the same boat.

I've costed these around £1000 second hand, and given that you've got your live board and front end in a one-et, I came to the conclusion that these were about the best balance of price/functionality for what I wanted.

From a live mixing perspective, I've decided to go for the A&H (can't ignore 100mm faders over the Mackies, that and the - albeit convoluted - potential to use them to write fader automation), but if you're already working live then I suppose you have the board covered.

The other option was to look into getting one of the many rack mounted pre's, though I couldn't find many with the firewire/thunderbolt/usb 3 interface that I'd need to get the signal into the macbook. There's a few, but most will output on AES, ADAT or some other format that is largely dependant on PCIe to get in into the computer. However you look at it, you're running into a similar price tag for the board to get the same 16 I/O. Given that you've got a desk already though, this might not be too much of an issue.

outboard HDRs are the other really viable option - much cheaper to set up, but you are still left trying to find one with macbook-able outputs, or messing around with getting the files to the DAW later on.

As I say, for my money the convenience of the all in one board / adda is the way to go for a portable live setup given the potential re-use and flexibility of the equipment. But then I know I'll not be the only one with an opinion on this!

Dave