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Author Topic: Do you listen to __ and think they had R/E/P problems?  (Read 3510 times)

Jay Hills

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Do you listen to __ and think they had R/E/P problems?
« on: September 13, 2013, 01:55:03 PM »

What problems do you find when you listen to [radio,CD,mp3,stream,youtube,etc.] that are widely distributed and easy to find, that you form a critical opinion on?

Like,
A. there is issue x, but song still rocks and I love it or hate it;
B. this track has been ruined by issue x, and may have been more highly regarded if it was fixed;
C. I'm into audio and can't listen to it because of issue x, but others probably dismiss that issue or are completely unaware of it;
D. other

I guess I'm looking for audio pro's opinions of stuff I'm able to hear for some lessons.

As a songwriter I do this, and we used to do this type of thing in lecture group situations where amateur songwriters would submit to critical review of a panel.  I learned a lot.  I'm sure audio pros do this also.  A lot of the time I hear major releases with first-draft lyrics or the wrong approach, like preachy as a prime example that destroys a song that could have been great.  So do you guys find major R/E/P weaknesses in what you hear?  (or point me to existing posts regarding this, I may not be searching correctly)
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Fletcher

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Re: Do you listen to __ and think they had R/E/P problems?
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2013, 12:12:11 PM »

I humbly submit that the presentation you're hearing on the radio [Pandora, etc., etc., etc.] is the artists' / production team's intention.  Sometimes those intentions are "misguided" [ahem, sometimes to say the least] as they "time stamp" the presentation or actually interfere with your ability to like the song [I harken back to a bunch of records I worked on where the producer insisted crap like "Simmons" drums be used] -- but at the end of the day, this is the released product -- take it or leave it.

Those of us who work on creating these things hear the final presentation differently than projected consumers of the product will ever hear it.  There are a couple of records I've done that I can't listen to -- not even after leaving a decade or so between listens... records my girlfriend owned before she met me and likes.  I hear the warts [things like totally out of place reverbs, effects (many of which are out of time which drives me bonkers!) that distract from the important stuff going on, etc., etc., etc.], she likes the songs... its just the way it is.

The song is the song, the presentation is the presentation.  A great song will stand up to anything... a mediocre song will stand up to a lot... and a crap song can be saved by great production -- but that's incredibly rare.  On the bright side, a great song can't be killed by production... it'll still be a great song and hopefully someone other artist will recognize the song's greatness and come along someday and redo it -- while they make that song their own, and make it great [see the majority of Bob Dylan's catalog for details... did he really say that?].

Peace
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

Jim Williams

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Re: Do you listen to __ and think they had R/E/P problems?
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2013, 12:39:44 PM »

What problems do you find when you listen to [radio,CD,mp3,stream,youtube,etc.] that are widely distributed and easy to find, that you form a critical opinion on?

In a word: 

Listenability.

 Most new productions are ripping with distortions and digital errors, it's not the soothing, soft sounds we old farts grew up on, like those old Hendrix albums.
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Fletcher

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Re: Do you listen to __ and think they had R/E/P problems?
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2013, 01:40:20 PM »

Indeed - the digital distortion and general "sound" of the delivery method will make us old guys kinda blue [pun intended (you gotta be old, or musically aware to get it)]... but that's a "general" problem and not a specific issue with any production in particular [though there are indeed some productions that take the "digital experience" to an extreme].

FWIW -- I've found the "severely flawed" delivery method called "vinyl" has helped immensely... the irony being that for convenience sake I've "digitized" most of my vinyl... through a JCF conversion set [chock full of big / nasty transformers that add their own distortions!!] to the master MP-3 delivery system in the house.  While the stuff I've put into the MP-3 domain generally sounds better than the other stuff in my MP-3 library... the delivery system is still complete shite.

On the bright side... its WAY less expensive than hiring a DJ to spin records 15-16 hours a day...

Peace
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

Jim Williams

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Re: Do you listen to __ and think they had R/E/P problems?
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2013, 11:00:54 AM »

No MP3 here, everything is 16 bits. FLAC files can be imported into your Ipoddy. I can't do 4 bits here. I'd rather listen to the bird calls in my backyard.

At least they don't use autotune.
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Jay Hills

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Re: Do you listen to __ and think they had R/E/P problems?
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2013, 09:36:14 PM »

Nature sounds, interesting to bring them up, I am sitting and listening to crickets at different sound levels and different locations and the wide stereo spread and different personalities they all have is amazing and the oldest song ever, I guess... too bad there's a parkway out there also, but I can't say I'm not loving it.  Different pitches and speeds....

Hendrix and Dylan, wow.  I still listen to them on vinyl also.  I was just wondering the other day, how the drums on Experienced can be so awesome but mixed so low and the bass so up front, of course I expect guitars up front, but I'm straining to hear those awesome jazzy super fast fills and riffs of Mitch, I don't have them on CD, I'm guessing they were remastered, but were they remixed also?  I wonder if different re-pressings in later years might have had issues?  I digress....

Yes, good songs are the thing.  Sometimes my girlfriend mentions some new thing on the radio and how she can't get it out of her mind, and I tell her, just wait a week, it'll be gone, and it is, she never mentions it again, because it was crap, not a song, just a sound track to a dance video etc.  And my jams on my DAW that I've done without doing my homework in advance with an arrangement and at least a melody with dummy lyrics or first drafts pretty much turn into nothing but a test of the gear and refining my ability, not for aural consumption.

I think I might even hear stuff that's a problem, but "digital errors" is something I should know about.

Are we saying that combining any combination of analog recorded sounds mixed together and printed to tape didn't have any of the new issues we have today?

I know there's mic phase that was always around, but was any analog source able to mix well with any other?

I'll be digitally recording so where do I look for info on how to limit the digital gremlins?
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Fletcher

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Re: Do you listen to __ and think they had R/E/P problems?
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2013, 06:58:04 AM »

I'll be digitally recording so where do I look for info on how to limit the digital gremlins?

It ain't rocket surgery... your meters.  As my dear friend Terry Manning once said:  "Yellow -- its the new Red".  If you're recording 24 bit [and you should be] just go easy on the levels and you'll be fine...

Peace
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm
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