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[ricknroll]

jnorman wrote on Fri, 03 September 2004 09:05

3.  some sales guys are telling me that the newer M300 is damn near as good as the m3000 at way lower cost - can this be true?

I own the M300 and have not tried the M3000, but if the above statement is true, the M3000 must sound terrible.  I mean, the M300 is fine for a box that costs $200, but no one with decent ears would be fooled into thinking it sounded anywhere near real.  My assumption is the sales guys are being sales guys.

-Rick Hedges

[gie-sound]

I'm not a Lexicon fan either. Two weeks ago I had a big discussion with an engineer (&friend) who really likes Lexicon reverbs. The funny thing is that we both mention the same things when we talk about our favorite... But mine is the TC6000 and his is the Lexicon 480. It's like discussing with "the man in the mirror", but finding out that he holds a 480 under his arm, and when I look in my arms there is a 6000...      

I've also used the Yardstick a couple of times, and that thing is REALLY REALLY real-sounding. Maybe a bit too much for my taste, so that's why I still prefer the TC6000.
I also tried out the Korg for 2 days, but it wasn't my cup of tea. Don't really know why... it just took me too long to dial in a setting that I liked. And even then I wan't quit satisfied

BTW: I use the PCM91 for one of it's Vocal Plates every now and then... But not for "it's natural sound"  

GRTX
G. Aalbers

[Ivo]

I am using PCM-91 and like the sound. I am however not looking for any "realistic" reverbs. Several times I was tempted by the idea of convolution reverbs. I have a collection of thousands of IRs. They really sound very nice. But when PCM-91 comes next to them, even the best IRs remain a "second class". To my ears IRs always sound a bit thinner, more artificial, less rich and more obviously pronounced as if, comparing to the Lexicon unit ...

[kubapk]

If I had budget I would buy
1xLex 960 full option
1xTC M6000 full option
2xLex 480 (for music)
or
2xLex 300 (for film)
1xKurz as reverb for Keyboards

Best regards

Kuba Pietrzak

[George Massenburg]

Everyday I use...

  Sony DRE-777 (good big rooms, but also the best small rooms & plates)
  TC Electronic M6000 (3.5 software)
  Eventide Orville (almost every stereo & surround special effect you're ever need)

In the past, and for special reverbs & FX I also have...

  Eventide 2016 ("Stereo Room" & "Chorus") & DSP4000
  TC M3000 & M5000

...and a score of old goofy boxes of various vintage & manufacture

I am listening to...

  Waves IR
  Altiverb

But, you know, I'm still looking for a real reverb/ambience simulation device.

George

[jimmyjazz]

I find the discussion on Lex reverbs very interesting.  I honestly didn't realize anyone even tried to use a Lex for a "realistic" room reverb.  It's a different animal.  

I use a TC M3000 and a Lex PCM91 almost exclusively, and will continue to do so, at least until I start mixing in the box with convo reverbs.  I can't afford to go buy the latest hardware every 6 months.  What I have found is that the TC is hands-down the choice for a reasonably realistic room sound, and the Lex is often the choice for a vocal reverb.  Sometimes I have to print the TC for that app, though, in order to free it up for the room reverb.  

Both have served me well . . . to my ears, they are maybe 75% of the way "there" at 25% of the price of state-of-the-art units.  (Obviously, a $600 software solution is plenty intriguing.)

jim andrews
four/four records, LLC

[Bryson]

George Massenburg wrote on Sun, 05 September 2004 13:17

Fletcher wrote on Sat, 04 September 2004 20:47 For years I have hated "verb-in-the-box"... but then I met the Kurzweil KSP-8 and all was forgiven... then earlier this year I worked at a joint with a TC M6K and a KSP-8... it reaffirmed my affection for the KSP-8 [while making me wonder why people spent the money they spent on t.c. 6k machines] I like the M6K because TC continues to develop really great reverb algorithms for it.  The only times KSP8 reverbs have been demonstrated, they weren't really there yet (grainy, fluttery, no good diffusion...not alot of control.).   Especially in multichannel, there is no better, more flexible, reverb tool than the TC M6K.  Is the the ultimate?  Naaaa.  That would take a REAL committment to new algorithm development. George

I've had an M5000 since it came out, but I can't seem to make a long tail with it that isn't sort of metallic and grainy (not as bad as an SRV2000 mind you). I end up using the PCM91 more for smooth orchestral stuff.
Are there any shared presets for the 5k around? It came with one GM preset with like a six month decay on it....pretty sweet but I've not yet found a use for it (not that I'm really that deep).

When I bought the 5k it was touted as being obselescence proof, with continued future updates.....I think there were two.


Timmy Bryson

[B Slotte]

bobkatz wrote on Fri, 03 September 2004 19:52

I know I'm going to alienate a lot of people here, but I've always found the Lexicons to be less able to produce a naturalistic sense of depth and space. I've narrowed it down to their approach to not really producing early reflections, just a bunch of delays that don't really simulate a room space.

This is one of the reasons why I like to build my own reverbs. Since I'm no DSP assembly programming expert I use the software synth program Reaktor for this. It's a processor hog, but after quite a lot of work I have been able to build quite capable setups. My recent project is a 5-channel early reflection generator. It needs further streamlining, but maybe I will post it on the web some day.

[doughiggins]

Bryson wrote on Fri, 15 October 2004 01:03

I've had an M5000 since it came out, but I can't seem to make a long tail with it that isn't sort of metallic and grainy (not as bad as an SRV2000 mind you). I end up using the PCM91 more for smooth orchestral stuff. Are there any shared presets for the 5k around? It came with one GM preset with like a six month decay on it....pretty sweet but I've not yet found a use for it (not that I'm really that deep). When I bought the 5k it was touted as being obselescence proof, with continued future updates.....I think there were two. Timmy Bryson

you ever use Gold Plate? i think it's like 48 or something. i usually only change predelay and decay....

[Peter Simonsen]

Bryson wrote on Fri, 15 October 2004 09:03

Are there any shared presets for the 5k around? It came with one GM preset with like a six month decay on it....pretty sweet but I've not yet found a use for it (not that I'm really that deep). Timmy Bryson

Timmy,

What do you mean..??? That preset and everything else in the M-5000 can be changed by the user. The Reverb 3 (or is it 2) in the M-5000 is the most complex preset-line of the M-5000 presets..If I remember correctly the GM- preset offers you up til 4 different "room-presets" within the main GM-preset (small 1, 2, wow, etc presets)..on top of that you can change all the eqs, predelays, reverb tails, near & far room simulation..etc you like..that means your are also free to change the 5.9 sec delay..and 89 msec predelay of the GM-preset...

Presets in my mind are only meant as guide´s to build from by the user..I have never found a preset from any machine I have worked with..that I didnt have to change..sometimes a lot !!!

Kind regards

Peter

[reno x]

George-

Considering the track record of Sony and the fact that support for their reverb is not certain- is it still a worthwhile investment- or purchase at ~$3K- the price they are selling them for now? I wonder about this especially in light of the convolution programs out there-

I have been using an RMX16 which has some great sounds- but it is totally unreliable and no one exists to fix it properly-

Also- thank you so much for doing this forum- and the last one- I have been lurking as a huge fan for years.

[chap]

I have an EMT 140, tc6000 w/3.5, and some Lexi stuff (80. 90 and some others).
They all have a place but the tc is the only one that sounds like a
'place'.  The Lexi stuff is more of an effect (gated snares etc..)
The 140 is, well, a 140.  The tc does a pretty good plate.
I think the tc is the way to go right now but who knows a week from now?
chap

[Bryson]

Peter Simonsen wrote on Sun, 31 October 2004 01:53

Bryson wrote on Fri, 15 October 2004 09:03 Are there any shared presets for the 5k around? It came with one GM preset with like a six month decay on it....pretty sweet but I've not yet found a use for it (not that I'm really that deep). Timmy Bryson Timmy, What do you mean..??? That preset and everything else in the M-5000 can be changed by the user. The Reverb 3 (or is it 2) in the M-5000 is the most complex preset-line of the M-5000 presets..If I remember correctly the GM- preset offers you up til 4 different "room-presets" within the main GM-preset (small 1, 2, wow, etc presets)..on top of that you can change all the eqs, predelays, reverb tails, near & far room simulation..etc you like..that means your are also free to change the 5.9 sec delay..and 89 msec predelay of the GM-preset... Presets in my mind are only meant as guide´s to build from by the user..I have never found a preset from any machine I have worked with..that I didnt have to change..sometimes a lot !!! Kind regards Peter

Oh yes, I always tweak the parameters...have to.  I just wondered about presets from real world users (which I count the GM patch as) as opposed to factory issue.

[electrical]

I'm not a fan of artificial reverb, so I tend to use it sparingly and judge it harshly. I don't mind a well maintained plate for "genre" music, and there is even one spring reverb I don't hate, the AKG BX20.

The "best" reverb, in my mind, is one that can convince me I'm listening to a recording of acoustic ambience, and by that standard, the clear winner is the Quantec XLS. Nothing else comes close. If you're trying for realistic ambience, look no further.

Speaking of which, I'm trying to get mine fixed -- If anyone has any resources in this regard, please drop me a line.

I also don't mind the Klark Teknik DN780, which is very good for short reverbs, not so great for long ones.

[Alécio Costa - Brazil]

So seems Lexicon mid ´priceboxes are overrated?
It might sound strange, but I still prefer my old SPX990, SPX 900 boxes over the MPX1/PCM80.
With these boxes they seem to lack some depth.

Off-topic: The old Lexiverb 2.0 for TDM systems is the equivalent of a PCM80? PCM70?
Thanks