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Author Topic: FOUR MORE YEARS!!!  (Read 8517 times)

rvdsm

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FOUR MORE YEARS!!!
« on: September 01, 2004, 08:58:59 pm »

So who's ready for four more years of Bush?



In case you didn't already know, he is going to win the 2004 election and with any luck, Jeb Bush will win in 2008 when he runs for office (and we all know he will!).
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John Ivan

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Re: FOUR MORE YEARS!!!
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2004, 12:47:27 am »

Well, I'm not what one would call "ready" but I understand that this tragedy is possible. The thing that really drives me nuts is that a huge number of Americans make the choice to not pay attention or vote. This goes on year after year. There is simply no doubt in my mind that going to Iraq under the conditions present at the time was a gigantic mistake. I don't believe for a moment that the right wing of the Republican party gives a shit for anyone but themselves. Yes, I am one of those folks who think that Mr.Bush is not nearly qualified to be President and the way he ended up in the white house is something America should be ashamed of. Sit back and watch what these people do if they are elected again. War will come and come and come. The fact that this president would even consider doing the Limbaugh show is just sick. These people are freaks freaks freaks .YUK!!!
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Curve Dominant

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Re: FOUR MORE YEARS!!!
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2004, 02:00:58 am »

Our US government had a $3 trillion surplus when Bush took office.

It now has a $5 trillion deficit.

With absolutely nothing to show for that disappearance of $8 trillion.

Which begs the question:

What happens to $8 trillion when you put it in the hands of a coke-snorting alcoholic draft-dodger from a rich family who never had to work an honest day in his life?

Anybody??

rvdsm

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Re: FOUR MORE YEARS!!!
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2004, 09:45:07 am »

Eric Vincent wrote on Thu, 02 September 2004 01:00


With absolutely nothing to show for that disappearance of $8 trillion.

That's not true. What do you call Iraq? That's what 8 trillion dollars bought us.
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Curve Dominant

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Re: FOUR MORE YEARS!!!
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2004, 01:53:13 pm »

Oh, that's nice. We paid $8 trillion so Al Caieda could have an entire country of their own as a terrorist training camp.

Be sure to tell your grandchildren what genuises we were to pull that one off.

Four more years of W., and we'll all be speaking Arabic.

rvdsm

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Re: FOUR MORE YEARS!!!
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2004, 02:34:06 pm »

What would Gore have done? Nothing. His foreign policy would have been to send advisors to Afghanistan, try to get Bin Laden to sit around a campfire and sing Kumbaya and then report to the world that everything was A-ok while terrorists were planning their next big assault.

America may have it's faults, but I'd rather it not turn into an Israel or Palestine. We need a leader who isn't going to back down when faced with hardships. We need a leader who is going to look out for the best interests of our nation as a whole.


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John Ivan

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Re: FOUR MORE YEARS!!!
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2004, 11:21:53 pm »

rvdsm wrote on Thu, 02 September 2004 13:34

What would Gore have done? Nothing. His foreign policy would have been to send advisors to Afghanistan, try to get Bin Laden to sit around a campfire and sing Kumbaya and then report to the world that everything was A-ok while terrorists were planning their next big assault.

America may have it's faults, but I'd rather it not turn into an Israel or Palestine. We need a leader who isn't going to back down when faced with hardships. We need a leader who is going to look out for the best interests of our nation as a whole.





It stuns me that you really think Gore would have done nothing.{or,dose it?}The truth is, you know nothing about what his foreign policy would be. Whether you like it or not, the rest of the world can teach us something about War and when we should be careful. In my view,and the view of many Republicans who are not on the extreme right, moving to violently take Iraq was Totally unnecessary. It was a mistake both strategically and tactically. History will prove that he was contained and would have been gone sooner than some think.We jumped the gun and we are paying for it with our brothers and sisters lives. I for one,am not amused.In short, I can't see now, nor could I see then ,how this War in Iraq is in our best interest. It may be in someones best interest, but not "ours",as a country.
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rvdsm

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Re: FOUR MORE YEARS!!!
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2004, 09:08:39 am »

ivan40 wrote on Thu, 02 September 2004 22:21

It stuns me that you really think Gore would have done nothing.{or,dose it?}The truth is, you know nothing about what his foreign policy would be.

No one does, he never made it into office.

ivan40 wrote on Thu, 02 September 2004 22:21

In short, I can't see now, nor could I see then ,how this War in Iraq is in our best interest. It may be in someones best interest, but not "ours",as a country.

Our best interest is our freedom and our security. The executive branch of our government has information we don't have on world events. They're source of information comes direct, not filtered through the media. We all make mistakes and relying on information that wasn't 100% accurate was dropping the ball a bit, but despite the little details the result is the same. We liberated Iraq from an oppressor and showed the world that we would not stand by and do nothing when threatened. Kudos to George W. Bush!
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Invisible Member

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Re: FOUR MORE YEARS!!!
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2004, 01:10:13 pm »

Eric Vincent wrote on Wed, 01 September 2004 23:00

Our US government had a $3 trillion surplus when Bush took office.

It now has a $5 trillion deficit.

With absolutely nothing to show for that disappearance of $8 trillion.

Which begs the question:

What happens to $8 trillion when you put it in the hands of a coke-snorting alcoholic draft-dodger from a rich family who never had to work an honest day in his life?

Anybody??

It was a projected surplus over a number of years beyond the length of any presidents term. Part of the projected surplus depended on whether economic growth continued over a 10 year period. If the dotcom bust had not happened in conjunction with things like 9-11, Iraq, Afganistan and Enron, more than likely the path to that projected surplus would have been similar even though it was a false boom because of corporations falsifiying records. Clinton thought he had a projected surplus but he didn't and it wasn't Clintons fault by any means.

The proverbial check in the mail was forged.

But the deficit works the same way, its projected based upon a spending trend in combination of expenditures and trade. Since 9-11 the areospace industry and travel industry took huge hits on top of unfair trade practices of the EU (Boeing losing huge orders to Airbus). The dotcom bust, billions of phantom dollars just disappearing like opening an empty paycheck. War in two countries, Border security and Air defences all start to add up in an ugly way. No matter who was in office this was all going to happen. To Gore or to Bush, this economic problem was there hiding under the suface waiting to pop. You can Blame Bush for some of the deficit by creating homeland security and increasing spending on alot of social programs and education that his own party cringes at.  

Maybe if we had spent more money on somethings, 9-11 might not have happend. Maybe if we spent less time trying to make obcene amounts of money playing the market Enron and the dotcom might have happened. Maybe if health insurance and drug company cared more about health than profit. Maybe if we were less materialistic and selfish as a society. Maybe if politicians were genuine and not opportunists. Maybe if we were willing to give people we disagree with the benefit of the doubt rather than demonizing them as liars and killers. Maybe if we were honest, loving and compassionate with other people and willing to sacrifice something for anothers benefit even if its in another country.


Peace,
Dennis
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PRobb

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Re: FOUR MORE YEARS!!!
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2004, 01:25:27 pm »

rvdsm wrote on Thu, 02 September 2004 14:34

What would Gore have done? Nothing. His foreign policy would have been to send advisors to Afghanistan, try to get Bin Laden to sit around a campfire and sing Kumbaya and then report to the world that everything was A-ok while terrorists were planning their next big assault.

America may have it's faults, but I'd rather it not turn into an Israel or Palestine. We need a leader who isn't going to back down when faced with hardships. We need a leader who is going to look out for the best interests of our nation as a whole.





Interesting that people were taking about Iraq and your response was about Afghanistan. We were fighting terrorists in Afghanistan and everybody here an around the world supported that fight. The problem is we abandoned the fight against terrorism to invade Iraq.  
The only connection the debacle in Iraq has to the fighting terrorism is that it is the most effective recruitment tool Osama Bin Forgotten could have hoped for. Oh yeah, it also has alienated us from our allies. And since we invaded Iraq, has there been less terrorism in the world or more?
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rvdsm

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Re: FOUR MORE YEARS!!!
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2004, 02:44:48 pm »

Dennis,

That was a great post! Very compelling.



PRobb,

Iraq may not have been a direct blow to terror organizations, but it did give the United States the balls it needs to make strong decisions in forgien affairs. We have to have that kind of power if we are going to lead the rest of the world in a war against terror. United, the free nations of the world can overpower those who would enslave the will of mankind and a team needs a leader. We are that leader and thereby must act like leaders, pushing on when others are to afraid.

Since 9/11 we have set an example worldwide that we will stand united against the threat of terror and that those who threaten peace will not be tolerated. We are empowering other nations to take the same stance and setting the example for the rest of the free world to follow. Today, terrorists are not going to be organized enough to pull off another 9/11 thanks to nations over the world uniting in a common goal - Stamp out terror wherever it is. Who was the first to call all nations to arms? George W. Bush. He's not lying when he says the world is now safer.

As far as Afghanistan goes, we accomplished our mission. The Taliban had to be overthrown for us to accomplish a very important project for the future or our economy, so 9/11 was sort of a "free shot" at it. The hunt for Osama Bin Laden would have been too vast, expensive, long and de-moralizing of a campaign to fight by ourselves and the Bush administration knew that. 9/11 had thrown everyone for a loop and Bush reacted the only way he could. Sure, maybe Iraq was a way for Bush to close the book on our involvement in Afghanistan and the fact that Bush wasn't going to carry on a lone wolf international man hunt. If you were president at the time and knew that you could spend the rest of your time in office chasing one man or make changes worldwide that would impact every terrorist organization, what would you do?
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John Ivan

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Re: FOUR MORE YEARS!!!
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2004, 10:55:04 pm »

Going to war in Iraq set a horrid example. We have not "over thrown" the Taliban. They are still there and in fact are part of the process to form the government.Not only was Iraq not a direct blow to terror organizations but it was what they wanted. These folks hope Dubya is reelected. They need every excuse they can find to continue their bloody assault on the west. Pointing to the presidents bad policy will only fuel their excuses and help recrute sick minded idiots.As far as finding bin laden is concerned, we waisted huge huge resources that could have dealt with this. We sent the best of the best to Iraq instead of finding him. As far as fighting a demoralizing campaign to find osama by our selves is concerned, Thats not the fight we were concerned about going alone. Iraq is where the rest of the world told duya he was nuts to rush in there without finishing the job at hand. I have no doubt that we could have had the world on our side if we would have approached Iraq more intelligently. The current White house simply dose not care about this fact. They want to go to war at every turn. They think the message to send is, " you do things our way or we will blow you to bits"
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PRobb

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Re: FOUR MORE YEARS!!!
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2004, 11:42:40 pm »

rvdsm wrote on Fri, 03 September 2004 14:44

Dennis,

That was a great post! Very compelling.



PRobb,

Iraq may not have been a direct blow to terror organizations, but it did give the United States the balls it needs to make strong decisions in forgien affairs. We have to have that kind of power if we are going to lead the rest of the world in a war against terror. United, the free nations of the world can overpower those who would enslave the will of mankind and a team needs a leader. We are that leader and thereby must act like leaders, pushing on when others are to afraid.

Since 9/11 we have set an example worldwide that we will stand united against the threat of terror and that those who threaten peace will not be tolerated. We are empowering other nations to take the same stance and setting the example for the rest of the free world to follow. Today, terrorists are not going to be organized enough to pull off another 9/11 thanks to nations over the world uniting in a common goal - Stamp out terror wherever it is. Who was the first to call all nations to arms? George W. Bush. He's not lying when he says the world is now safer.

As far as Afghanistan goes, we accomplished our mission. The Taliban had to be overthrown for us to accomplish a very important project for the future or our economy, so 9/11 was sort of a "free shot" at it. The hunt for Osama Bin Laden would have been too vast, expensive, long and de-moralizing of a campaign to fight by ourselves and the Bush administration knew that. 9/11 had thrown everyone for a loop and Bush reacted the only way he could. Sure, maybe Iraq was a way for Bush to close the book on our involvement in Afghanistan and the fact that Bush wasn't going to carry on a lone wolf international man hunt. If you were president at the time and knew that you could spend the rest of your time in office chasing one man or make changes worldwide that would impact every terrorist organization, what would you do?



Hard to know where to start with this. Iraq gave us the "balls" we need to "have the power to lead the rest of the world"? how does lying our way into an unnecessary war that is reviled around the world give us power? You then say "United, the free nations of the world can overpower those who would enslave the will of mankind:. Yes, and that is why having Bush strutting around the world like an out of control cowboy is such a tragedy. Telling our allies they can support us or piss off might not be the best way to unite the free nations.
  In Afghanistan we did a half assed job that was obviously nothing more than a practice run for Iraq. And we abandoned the job half done. Afghanistan is descending into anarchy, and the Taliban and Al-Qaeda are rebuilding. And worse, we went into Afghanistan with the support of the whole world. It was essential that we created a situation where we could proudly point and say "See what happens when the Americans come?" instead, our enemies can point to the mess there and say "See what happens when the Americans come?"
 Yes, the hunt for the guys who actually attacked us would have been hard. So we went after a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. Thats like the guy who loses his keys in a dark ally and is looking for them under a street light because its easier to look there.
 "Bush wasn't going to carry on a lone wolf international man hunt." He wasn't. He abandoned an internationally supported manhunt to go off on a lone wolf invasion.
 And if I were president , I hope I would be smart enough to realize that "Yee-HA" is not a foreign policy.
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PRobb

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Re: FOUR MORE YEARS!!!
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2004, 11:50:41 pm »

Oh yeah- the economic nubers were a bit confused. Bush inhereted a surplus of $300billion. No prjections here, thats actual black ink. By his second year the deficit was $400billion. Again hard numbers. Real red ink. Thats a $700BILLION turnaround in two years.
 
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Immanuel Kuhrt

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Re: FOUR MORE YEARS!!!
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2004, 08:05:58 am »

Bush scares me - really.
I find his aggressive foreign policy dangerous - creating problems that needn't become so huge - lighting fuses. Some call it prevention. I am not really sure.
He speaks against religious regimes - yet I feel, that he is kind of creating one by himself.
Where I come from, many people see him as one of the major threats concerning world peace and stability.
A resent pool in Denmark showed, that 10% would vote for Bush, if it was up to us. I don't think that has too much to do with Kerry.

You may feel offended and disagree. But this is just a presentation of, how this all can affect the way the "outside world" (which I by no means can claim myself representative for). And no matter if Bush is right or wrong, this effect can in itself become a dangerous problem.
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