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Author Topic: Where in the chain do you use M/S?  (Read 6008 times)

Alécio Costa - Brazil

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Where in the chain do you use M/S?
« on: November 13, 2012, 06:23:25 am »

Some folks use daily, others rarely and some hate it...
do you guys regularly do M/s? where?

a) Inside the daw, Before d/a - first  digital process ;
b) Inside the daw, as first process  after analog path (after a/d of course);
c) as the first process, in analog;
d) as the last processor, in analog chain;

I have been doing ITB after a/d, as a first process.
I use Neon HR. Never felt the phase problems comment here.
I am considering trying Brainworkx  software tools and/or M/sing at the analog chain  picking an SPL mastrix + second Ibis eq.


Thanks for any inputs.
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Alécio Costa Studio
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Michael Hynes

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Re: Where in the chain do you use M/S?
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2012, 09:20:27 am »

Depending on the needed level of surgery......
A m/s EQ in software for micro correction and the Knif Soma in analogue for broader
shaping. The analogue matrix on the knif is now default on 75% of projects..
I love MS eq but compression not very much.
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Alécio Costa - Brazil

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Re: Where in the chain do you use M/S?
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2012, 09:40:48 am »

Hi, Michael

Which plug-in do you use for digital M/S? Is it your first process in analog world and digital world?
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Alécio Costa Studio
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Michael Hynes

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Re: Where in the chain do you use M/S?
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2012, 10:57:04 am »

I use the Soma in analogue as a default for MS EQ...
If more is need I use a MIO MS EQ or a Sonorus mastering EQ plug before analogue.

M
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Hermetech Mastering

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Re: Where in the chain do you use M/S?
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2012, 02:50:28 pm »

If you are talking about M/S gain adjustments, I usually only do it for widening (rarely narrowing) the stereo image, and only if the other processing I am using makes it narrower, to bring it back to a similar balance as before. I will occasionally use it to make things "extra wide", but rarely am I doing more than 0.4dB of cut on the M channel. I prefer cutting the M to boosting the S. I usually use the freeware Voxengo MSED for this.

For my particular use, it's always good to remember that it's not really M/S (which is a mic recording technique), and that a better description would be Sum & Difference. I find it a little less confusing to think of it in these terms.

I used to always use it in the digital domain just before the DAC and the analogue chain, but for the last year or so I've switched to using it in digital right after the ADC. It seems to sound more natural to me that way. But I'm still experimenting.

I will very occasionally use two instances of MSED, encode the stereo signal to MS, send it through the analogue chain (comps and EQs), make adjustments, send it back in through the ADC and then decode back to regular stereo, but not often. I tend not to like the sound of comps in M/S, whereas EQ can often sound better in M/S. As I don't currently have switchable inserts, I'm stuck with it all one way or the other.

I will also sometimes use it only in the digital domain, with an EQ or de-esser, for example, if I want to de-ess a vocal that is centre panned.

I often don't use it at all. So as with everything in mastering, it depends on the source!

Can't recommend Voxengo MSED highly enough, and it's free. Not tried the Brainworx freeware one yet, does it offer anything that MSED doesn't have?

Alécio Costa - Brazil

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Re: Where in the chain do you use M/S?
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2012, 03:11:31 pm »

Thanks for the tips, Greg.
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Miguel P. Marques

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Re: Where in the chain do you use M/S?
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2012, 05:25:52 am »

Sometimes I use the alpha compressor in plugin if a little tweak in dynamics is needed, in M/S mode.

I've used a few times my Maselec gear on M/S by using MSED from Voxengo, as Babaluma mentioned.

My opinion is you should only use M/S if you need to solve something you can't solve in L/R.
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Alécio Costa - Brazil

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Re: Where in the chain do you use M/S?
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2012, 06:41:15 am »

60% of I receive is from Small project studios or mixed in semi untreated rooms. Solve in L-R only is almost impossible.
But I also receive stuff properly done on SSLs / nice control rooms.
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Viitalahde

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Re: Where in the chain do you use M/S?
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2012, 08:18:13 am »

I try and I try M/S in analog, but I never like it. The rare occasions I go M/S, it's digital. Typically Sonoris Parallel EQ. I would like to have a M/S capable de-esser though. Maybe I should invest in a M6000 some day.
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Jaakko Viitalähde
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Alécio Costa - Brazil

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Re: Where in the chain do you use M/S?
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2012, 08:45:07 am »

Jaako, do you think that is related with analog crosstalk?

At  this very moment I am mastering some stuff to Massachussets, USA and I have 1 instance of Neon HR in M-S Mode. Try that someday and see what is your opinion.
Best wishes,
Alécio
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Michael Hynes

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Re: Where in the chain do you use M/S?
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2012, 08:49:10 am »

The trick for me has been to start EQing with the knif in M/S analogue but match the channels as if
doin LR. Next I may do a little subtle elliptical eq if needed and tighten the M in the Bass region ect ect...
A little .25 bump in the gain of the S and a .5 Db cut in the upper mids can create a nice sense of space.
I M/S EQ all the time now but it is used subtly and pretty close to channel matched except where needed.

All this being said....
Before being having the Soma I was less thrilled with MID SIDE but now I love it...
Having the ability to quickly solo the MS fields is key BTW...
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Alécio Costa - Brazil

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Re: Where in the chain do you use M/S?
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2012, 09:20:22 am »

In the beginning of 2013 I hope to pick another IBIs eq  for analog M-S polishing,  a bit of colouring and  de-essing.

I now at least 2 MEs who are doing this for years and really enjoy it.
But for a while, I am satisfied with Neon HR.
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Alécio Costa Studio
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Viitalahde

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Re: Where in the chain do you use M/S?
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2012, 01:55:30 pm »

I don't think it's an analog vs. digital thing at all. I think it's just with the way I work. It's more like a problem solver for me, not a flexible way to EQ, if you get what I mean.
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Jaakko Viitalähde
Virtalähde Mastering, Kuhmoinen/Finland
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Alécio Costa - Brazil

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Re: Where in the chain do you use M/S?
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2012, 02:54:06 pm »

sure!
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Alécio Costa Studio
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bblackwood

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Re: Where in the chain do you use M/S?
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2012, 04:23:19 pm »

I pretty much keep my M/S matrix wrapped around the Ibis in my chain, first thing in the chain most of them time.
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Brad Blackwood
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