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[theo mack]

I was surprised to read that charles dye mixes through duy wide while mixing.

Errrr. or maybe it was mixing through the analog ch plug and ren comp. then the last step was duy wide.

wide always sounds weird to me.

Anyway, the definitive answer to this post seems to be:

Get it in the mix with panning ddl's verb as best you can.
If you think you could still get a little wider , ask your M E to give it a shot.

[Curve Dominant]

Quote:

posted by theom: I was surprised to read that charles dye mixes through duy wide while mixing. Errrr. or maybe it was mixing through the analog ch plug and ren comp. then the last step was duy wide. wide always sounds weird to me. Anyway, the definitive answer to this post seems to be: Get it in the mix with panning ddl's verb as best you can. If you think you could still get a little wider , ask your M E to give it a shot.

Theom,

Points well taken.

Charles Dye has his style of mixing, as does Pensado, et al. There's lots of different approaches.

It's iIMHO better  to mix for the client's vision, as opposed to being stuck on some preconcieved notion of  "what's the best way to mix."

[Bob Olhsson]

Lets not forget that the source of a great mix lies in the tracking, the arrangement, the production and the performance. Often as not the placement of the musicians in the studio and the headphone mix are what made all the difference in the world.

My point is that it's ALL important and I'm afraid way too many people are forgetting this.

[bobkatz]

theom wrote on Thu, 02 September 2004 23:43

I was surprised to read that charles dye mixes through duy wide while mixing.

Well, that says it all!

BK

[jfrigo]

Bob Olhsson wrote on Fri, 03 September 2004 07:26

My point is that it's ALL important and I'm afraid way too many people are forgetting this.

Bob O has it as usual. You can't ignore any part of the process and hope to solve it with a magic bullet later. Each step builds upon the last. Shortchange one step, and every step after it is handicapped.

Many so called composers or producers now aren't bothering to learn about music or even how to play an instrument. A musical background is quite valuable, even when simply using combinations of Reason loops or similar as building blocks. In the end, If you're generally happy with the mix, and it's a good song, arrangement, and perfomance, and all it needs is a little more spaciousness, then go ahead and request it in mastering and if the engineer has good judgement, it will come back sounding better, not worse. But don't let yourself off the hook if you can do better. We're all striving to improve.

Mastering can certainly work wonders, but the best wonder is to simply finesse an already a great mix of a great song.

[Curve Dominant]

Quote:

posted by Bob Katz: theom wrote on Thu, 02 September 2004 23:43 I was surprised to read that charles dye mixes through duy wide while mixing. Well, that says it all! BK

Guys,

Please...let's not turn this into a bash on Chas.

I've already decided to NOT use DUY Wide on this particular project.

That said, Chas has his thing, and it has worked for him. It's not everyone's cup of tea. I don't imitate everything he does, but I've learned a lot from Chas, and have a lot of respect for him and what he's accomplished.

You guys are at the TOP of a game that I am only beginning to break into, so I say this with all due respect and humility.

Chas is doing the everything ITB thing (as I am), and it's a wild wild west scenario. We're trying different things, and seeing what works, and what doesn't, and it's a trial-by-error process. We're trying to find the right balance that makes our clients happy. There is not an established status quo in the digital audio world for that balance yet, so we may seem to be floundering at times.

But we want to make our clients happy and successful and profitable. As an artist I realize it's weird to see me use the word "profitable," but the fact is we cannot sustain ourselves if we do not remain profitable.

Which means: The more profitable we remain, the more business we can send you.

So please continue to work WITH us, and communicate WITH us, and seek to understand our needs, which are really our CLIENT's needs.

THANKS!

[jfrigo]

Eric Vincent wrote on Sat, 04 September 2004 00:41

We're trying different things, and seeing what works, and what doesn't, and it's a trial-by-error process. We're trying to find the right balance that makes our clients happy!

That's how to push the envelope and learn new things. You can't move forward without trying some things and having a few of them fall on their face. We've all tried some things we expected to be cool that turned out to be anything but. It's the nature of the beast. In the end, if the client is happy, you've done your job, and you'll get called again.

[bobkatz]

jfrigo wrote on Sat, 04 September 2004 11:29

Eric Vincent wrote on Sat, 04 September 2004 00:41 We're trying different things, and seeing what works, and what doesn't, and it's a trial-by-error process. We're trying to find the right balance that makes our clients happy! That's how to push the envelope and learn new things. You can't move forward without trying some things and having a few of them fall on their face.

Agreed, but oftentimes in the popular music field it's fashion-driven and good taste in sound is the last priority on anyone's mind. If some of these mix engineers could hear what their mixes sound like on better speakers than their NS-10-derivatives, they'd say, "well gag me with a spoon and what's all that distortion and the high end is driving me out of the room!"

[Level]

Quote:

If some of these mix engineers could hear what their mixes sound like on better speakers than their NS-10-derivatives, they'd say, "well gag me with a spoon and what's all that distortion and the high end is driving me out of the room!"

A keen little trick is to actually wire a 3rd loudspeaker to the +R/+L and listen to the 'difference' signal directly. This will tell you if you have high frequency phasing problems, once you know what to listen for. Another trick is to lower the volume considerably, boost 30hz about 14dB and listen for trash, hidden plosives and the like. Sometimes it is best to "fish out" the "hidden" nasties and mark them, work on them and get the overall problem areas solved. I use a slight bit of widening if I feel the mixes are sitting mostly center. A good left/right spread is always appreciated...BUT, this is something you may want to consult the mixing engineer about. I have had intentional Mono tracks come in here that are to stay mono. Before the L/R balance is futzed with too much, a good Q/A session should be of order.

[jfrigo]

bobkatz wrote on Sat, 04 September 2004 09:14

Quote: That's how to push the envelope and learn new things. You can't move forward without trying some things and having a few of them fall on their face. Agreed, but oftentimes in the popular music field it's fashion-driven and good taste in sound is the last priority on anyone's mind.

Heck ya; bad taste, poor judgement, and technical shortcomings run rampant, but I still would never sugest that somebody stop exploring, nor would I suggest that they should not serve their clients. We just have to offer the best advice we can and hope people excercise some reason. People learn better by experience than by reading. It's sometimes hard for people to know where the line is until they cross it. Luckily in audio, nobody dies from bad sound and they can do better next time.

[Curve Dominant]

Quote:

posted by jfrigo: You can't move forward without trying some things and having a few of them fall on their face. We've all tried some things we expected to be cool that turned out to be anything but. It's the nature of the beast. In the end, if the client is happy, you've done your job, and you'll get called again.

Right on.

I want my client to hear herself, above all, in this production; and the gear to get out of her way, get behind her, and serve her.

[Curve Dominant]

Quote:

posted by Bob Olhsson: Lets not forget that the source of a great mix lies in the tracking, the arrangement, the production and the performance. Often as not the placement of the musicians in the studio and the headphone mix are what made all the difference in the world. My point is that it's ALL important and I'm afraid way too many people are forgetting this.

Right on, Bob.

I know from my (somewhat limited) experience, that every time we took great care in all those areas, we came up with stuff that was easy to mix.

And whenever we cut corners in those areas, no amount of PT editing or plugin voodoo ever saved us, and we always went back to basics in those scenarios, and recut that stuff.

Garbage in = garbage out. PT et al does not negate that equation. I know, I tried.