R/E/P Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down

Author Topic: What Is your Stem Mastering Rig?  (Read 10200 times)

djwaudio

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 225
  • Real Full Name: Dana J White
What Is your Stem Mastering Rig?
« on: May 01, 2012, 08:19:19 PM »

I'm thinking about the playback side here.  I've been getting mixes with vocals separately on occasion lately and it may be time to get properly set up to handle these with grace. 

Normally, I'm using Wavelab to pitch for Stereo projects and catch with Sadie. For stems, I'm looking for something better in the event that I need to put some processing on an element, etc. 

One thing occurs to me, is I could use the System 6000 for levels & summing as well as a bit of processing, I'll just need to get a multi-channel I/O to interface for the PC.  Or maybe just get Pro Tools once and for all (though I prefer using hardware for workflow, etc). 

How are you doing it?
Logged
Respectfully submitted,

Dana J White
Specialized Mastering
www.specializedmastering.com

MoreSpaceEcho

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 40
Re: What Is your Stem Mastering Rig?
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2012, 10:03:23 PM »

For stems, I'm looking for something better in the event that I need to put some processing on an element, etc. 

maybe i misread, but you can do this just fine in wavelab, just put the stems on separate tracks in a montage. you can have plugs on the individual tracks or the clips themselves. you can also assign the channels to different outputs in the event you want to process the stems with separate pieces of analog stuff.

for me, i've only had a few projects come in with stems, and i just processed them differently ITB then ran the whole thing out to analog and mastered as usual.

Jerry Tubb

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 172
  • Real Full Name: Jerry Tubb
Re: What Is your Stem Mastering Rig?
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2012, 10:06:33 PM »

Pro Tools HD pitching to soundBlade HD.

Easy as Pie!

JT
Logged
Terra Nova Mastering
Celebrating 25 years of Mastering!

Twerk

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 143
  • Real Full Name: Shawn Hatfield
Re: What Is your Stem Mastering Rig?
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2012, 10:11:41 PM »

I prefer to handle stems ITB as far as individual processing is concerned, and then master outboard with my analog gear as a stereo file.
Logged

pmx

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25
  • Real Full Name: Paul Matthijs Lombert
Re: What Is your Stem Mastering Rig?
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2012, 04:48:10 AM »

I try to stick to a post workflow when doing multichannel. PT functions as playback, digital summing in the 6000 before the analog chain and then back into PT or sB. if analog processing is needed/preferred I have a nice 16 ch Studer desk which is fed by a SSL Alphalink and then into the analog mastering chain.
Logged
Paul Matthijs Lombert | The Mastering Factory

Thomas W. Bethel

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 331
  • Real Full Name: Thomas W. Bethel
  • When only the best will do.
Re: What Is your Stem Mastering Rig?
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2012, 06:54:17 AM »

Samplitude or Wavelab here for stem mastering, Works GREAT!!!
Logged
Thomas W. Bethel
Managing Director
Acoustik Musik, Ltd.
http://www.acoustikmusik.com/

Doing what you love is freedom.
Loving what you do is happiness.

Celebrating 29 years in business in 2024

When only the best will do...

Hermetech Mastering

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 185
  • Real Full Name: Gregg Janman
Re: What Is your Stem Mastering Rig?
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2012, 07:49:21 AM »

I've only done stem mastering a couple of times, but really didn't like it. I've refused to do it since then, lost a job but really prefer to work on finished setreo mixes. Not set up for surround here yet, otherwise it would be a consideration again. Having said that, when I did do it, I'd return the mastered stems to the mix engineer and let him line them up again.

djwaudio

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 225
  • Real Full Name: Dana J White
Re: What Is your Stem Mastering Rig?
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2012, 08:54:44 PM »

I prefer the stereo mix too.  I find the stems to change what mastering is. I think I'd appreciate it more if I had the workflow really dialed in.

@  MoreSpaceEcho, I'm using WL 5, so the montage is a little more clumsy than the later versions.  I was about to upgrade to WL 6 when they brought out 7.  Once I heard the tales of whoa with that version, I held off.

Anyone not using their copy of WL 6?
Logged
Respectfully submitted,

Dana J White
Specialized Mastering
www.specializedmastering.com

Jerry Tubb

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 172
  • Real Full Name: Jerry Tubb
Re: What Is your Stem Mastering Rig?
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2012, 09:43:04 PM »

I'd return the mastered stems to the mix engineer and let him line them up again.

Hi Gregg, isn't the point of stems, to adjust the level balances (and perhaps EQ) on the stems, with the timeline(s) intact, and then master it as a stereo mix?

Cheers, JT
Logged
Terra Nova Mastering
Celebrating 25 years of Mastering!

Hermetech Mastering

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 185
  • Real Full Name: Gregg Janman
Re: What Is your Stem Mastering Rig?
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2012, 04:00:33 AM »

I'm not really sure Jerry, as I said, I've only done it a couple of times, the client was a friend and was happy to do the lining up himself. He basically wanted me to process the drum stem, synth/pad stem, and percussion/noises stem separately.

If I had to do stem mastering as you suggest, I'd want to run each stem through the analogue chain, but I only have a stereo chain, so it would mean multiple passes, and then figuring out some way of lining them up sample accurately after the fact.

If stem mastering is really about adjusting level balances between individual tracks, then I'd much rather leave that to the mix engineer!

Twerk

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 143
  • Real Full Name: Shawn Hatfield
Re: What Is your Stem Mastering Rig?
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2012, 04:23:44 AM »

Stem mastering in my opinion, really should be treated as close to regular ol' mastering as possible. Where it differs is when you have something you want to EQ, you don't end up pulling out or cutting frequencies from another instrument that was fine as it was.

A typical stem project for me means mastering it as a stereo file through the outboard, and making any specific tweaks to an individual sound in the box before it hits the analog chain.

Example: I've got a good mix but there's some pretty obvious resonance in the vocal at 280hz. Rather than apply an EQ cut globally to the problem area, which affects everything in the mix, I can load up something like FabFilter Pro-Q on just the vocal stem, make the necessary cuts and then continue to process the entire mix as normal through the outboard chain.

I really just see stems as having more control over what you don't want to affect, rather than tweaking every stem for maximum potential. I tell my clients that their stem mix should be as close to done as they can possibly get it.
Logged

Hermetech Mastering

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 185
  • Real Full Name: Gregg Janman
Re: What Is your Stem Mastering Rig?
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2012, 04:36:42 AM »

Twerk, that would make a lot of sense to me, in that everything would then just be hitting the analogue chain as a regular stereo file, but don't you ever find you'd like to use your outboard on individual stems?

Is there a known/good way to be able to line everything up sample accurately, if you have to process stems individually?

Miguel P. Marques

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16
  • Real Full Name: Miguel Marques
Re: What Is your Stem Mastering Rig?
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2012, 06:28:13 AM »

Stem mastering in my opinion, really should be treated as close to regular ol' mastering as possible. Where it differs is when you have something you want to EQ, you don't end up pulling out or cutting frequencies from another instrument that was fine as it was.

A typical stem project for me means mastering it as a stereo file through the outboard, and making any specific tweaks to an individual sound in the box before it hits the analog chain.

Example: I've got a good mix but there's some pretty obvious resonance in the vocal at 280hz. Rather than apply an EQ cut globally to the problem area, which affects everything in the mix, I can load up something like FabFilter Pro-Q on just the vocal stem, make the necessary cuts and then continue to process the entire mix as normal through the outboard chain.

I really just see stems as having more control over what you don't want to affect, rather than tweaking every stem for maximum potential. I tell my clients that their stem mix should be as close to done as they can possibly get it.

Same here!

I don't mind receiving stems or even tracks but most of the times it is a waste of bandwidth.

Other times, like in your example, you can fine tune some track or stem without affecting everything else. Or, client loves the master but wants the vocal one dB up, easy!

In this cases I'll use a plug-in to fix the stem and process the whole mix as it was a stereo file.
Logged
Bender Mastering Studio
www.bendermasteringstudio.com

djwaudio

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 225
  • Real Full Name: Dana J White
Re: What Is your Stem Mastering Rig?
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2012, 12:35:01 PM »

Is there a known/good way to be able to line everything up sample accurately, if you have to process stems individually?


You could use something like they do in film sync, a 2-pop.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2-pop


I treat stems like a regular stereo mix, with the option of making adjustments.  The more you invite this kind of thing, the less finished a mix you're likely to get, in my experience.  When those deadlines loom... I've been roped into mixing records this way.  Not that I mind, and sometimes it's a fun departure, but at some point it's not mastering as we know it. 

Something that I've enjoyed doing is having the DIY folks bring in their laptop & interface and master from that.  Then, they get a little education/feedback and a final sound that is better than what we would have had otherwise. Most of the time we are turning insane amounts of mix processing off. ;-)
Logged
Respectfully submitted,

Dana J White
Specialized Mastering
www.specializedmastering.com

Twerk

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 143
  • Real Full Name: Shawn Hatfield
Re: What Is your Stem Mastering Rig?
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2012, 01:01:48 PM »

Twerk, that would make a lot of sense to me, in that everything would then just be hitting the analogue chain as a regular stereo file, but don't you ever find you'd like to use your outboard on individual stems?

Well, I'm usually only doing some very specific EQ work with the stems, and I'm pretty happy with plug-in EQ's for this task. And occasionally, I'll work with some transient shapers on the kick/snare to help cut through the mix and I don't have anything in the analog domain to do it. So I'm pretty happy doing my tweaks digitally before it hits the analog chain.
Logged

Twerk

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 143
  • Real Full Name: Shawn Hatfield
Re: What Is your Stem Mastering Rig?
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2012, 01:06:18 PM »

Something that I've enjoyed doing is having the DIY folks bring in their laptop & interface and master from that.  Then, they get a little education/feedback and a final sound that is better than what we would have had otherwise. Most of the time we are turning insane amounts of mix processing off. ;-)

That's a great idea!
Logged

Hermetech Mastering

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 185
  • Real Full Name: Gregg Janman
Re: What Is your Stem Mastering Rig?
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2012, 01:08:40 PM »

Thanks Dana. I've actually done something similar before, I guess it would be called a "One Pop" ;) by using a brief transient on all tracks at the start, so I could line them up after processing. It was very labour intensive though. Actually, I think I used to do that when I only had one compressor, and believe it or not, I would sometimes run the L and the R through the compressor separately, then line them up after.

But I like the idea of stem mastering meaning that you could do any adjustments in the box, then hit the outboard as a regular stereo file. But it's all very much blurring the line between mixing and mastering, at least the ITB stage would be. It does seem an elegant solution.

I occasionally have the "back and forth" with the client about the two buss processing they may want to use. I try to explain it well to them, but sometimes they just don't want to take that limiter off, and you have to deal with what you are given. I think in some cases it's just bad recording practice, people "mix into the limiter" because otherwise they'd be clipping the hell out of the master fader, and just don't realise that there's no need for that when recording in 24 bit. If they have to take the limiter off the mix, they'll basically have to mix from scratch again. I've also offered to process two versions for them, one with there limiter and one without, and whilst they'll usually choose the one without after mastering, I did have one clinet whon still prefreed the sound of the limited version. Anyway, I digress...

jdg

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 119
Re: What Is your Stem Mastering Rig?
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2012, 08:11:14 PM »

Pro Tools HD pitching to soundBlade HD.

Easy as Pie!

JT

THIS BUT REPLACE POOTOOLS WITH ILLOGIC

OMFG MY CAPS IS BROKEN
Logged
John McCaig
-the caption captain

BiigNiick

  • R/E/P Forums
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 96
  • Real Full Name: Nick Landis
Re: What Is your Stem Mastering Rig?
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2012, 05:36:45 PM »


ProTools here for me, too.  But i prefer not to master from stems, it feels like i'm mixing the record too. . .



Quote from: djwaudio on May 04, 2012, 10:35:01 amSomething that I've enjoyed doing is having the DIY folks bring in their laptop & interface and master from that.  Then, they get a little education/feedback and a final sound that is better than what we would have had otherwise. Most of the time we are turning insane amounts of mix processing off. ;-)


That's a great idea!


I've done this too, in the past.  It can be a great educational experience for the engineer and really gives them some added value to coming to the mastering session.


 - nick
Logged

KAyo

  • R/E/P Forums
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 237
  • Real Full Name: KAyo
  • Business Videos 24/7
Re: What Is your Stem Mastering Rig?
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2012, 01:38:45 AM »

I agree! Eat your heart out and then realize the possibilities. 8)
Splendid idea..


Cheers'
KAyo
Logged
www.kantabiz.com
Business Video Directory

Treelady

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 48
Re: What Is your Stem Mastering Rig?
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2012, 02:43:06 PM »

Sequoia can do stems just fine.  I keep a Pro Tools rig for people who want to mix as they master. 

However, I'm a major proponent of the separation of Mix/Church and Mastering/State. While I don't mind a vocal or drum stem here or there to augment a mix (a life saver at times), mixing a song is the job of a dedicated mixing engineer --- who is not me.
Logged
______________________________________________
Garrett Haines
Chief Mastering Engineer, Treelady Studios, Pittsburgh, PA
Senior Contributor, Tape Op Magazine

Alécio Costa - Brazil

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 89
  • Real Full Name: Alécio T. Costa
Re: What Is your Stem Mastering Rig?
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2012, 02:45:39 PM »

Stems can eat a lot of time and people sometimes are a bit lazy to fine tweak their mixes.

Do you charge stems as stereo files?

Once a guy wanted to send a stereo file of each instrument group: hey, this is a summing mixing? LOL

I prefer to listen to the stereo mix and write a 5-minute technical  report.

Most people nowadays mix ITB and a recall does not take more than 15 minutes.

This method  has been doing fine here for 5 years.
Logged
Alécio Costa Studio
www.aleciocosta.com

Twerk

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 143
  • Real Full Name: Shawn Hatfield
Re: What Is your Stem Mastering Rig?
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2012, 03:03:30 PM »

Alecia, I charge stem projects hourly, as opposed to the flat per/song rates when doing stereo files. And like with all projects, communication is the defining element that dictates the work involved. I'm always as explicit as possible in letting them know I have no intention of performing mix duties with their stems and that it's simply a way for me make a correction without affecting components of the mix that are fine. Your consultation approach is great, and something I do as well which can often negate the need for stems altogether.

But.

That said, I've actually been taking on some stem projects lately that require more work. It's mostly because I haven't had time to work on my own music, and I miss spending some time at the mix level.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
 


Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.027 seconds with 21 queries.