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Author Topic: Is mastering needed any more?  (Read 10341 times)

Thomas W. Bethel

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Is mastering needed any more?
« on: April 27, 2012, 08:55:11 AM »

I seems to me that much of what mastering did in the past is superfluous today. Many of my musician friends are going directly from their basement studios to the WWW. They do EVERYTHING themselves including recording, mixing, mastering and uploading. They tell me that they are selling more songs and making more money than they ever did by spending money on mastering and CD production in the past. They also tell me that even if they are not making any money it is a GREAT hobby and keeps them occupied for hours (somewhat like model trains or fixing up a street rod did for others years ago).

I think the whole music industry will soon be going the way of the home hobbyist and more and unfortunately more pro studios will be closing their doors in the near future. It is pretty much inevitable given the current global economy and the lack of revenue from the record labels. Even the Indie artists are trying to do everything themselves including mastering their own material.

The day of the DIYer is upon us BIG TIME. There will always be the need for the big name "artist" to get their stuff pro mastered but the handwriting is on the wall for most smaller mastering only operations that are now hanging on by a thread. Even the unattended sessions offered by lots of major mastering studios are being under utilized by the people that could/should use them. I don't know what is coming in the near future but the long term outlook seems to be less and less work for us all. We are also going to have to face the fact that there are simply way too many mastering engineers for the number of people that currently, or will in the future, need our services. We will soon all be playing musical chairs for real.

This is not a doom and gloom outlook but a realistic look ahead.

Diversification seems to be the best way to solve the problem of dwindling revenue streams from former mastering clients. About three years ago I saw the writing on the wall and started to get into alternate streams of revenue including mastering, audio and video post production, restoration of audio materials, some forensics, audio and video recording of concerts and commercial video production. We also started to provide small run CD and DVD duplication and provide on CD printing and printed inserts plus heat shrinking if needed for the client's CDs or DVDs.

I am hopeful that with the diversification my company can go on for a number of years. Only time will tell if that hope is realized.

Best of luck to everyone on this board!!!

FWIW and YMMV
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Thomas W. Bethel
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Miguel P. Marques

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Re: Is mastering needed any more?
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2012, 09:46:19 AM »

I'm noticing the opposite actually!

People are starting to get tired of all those loud and crappy sounding records and they're now looking for proper recording and mastering studios.

And even those who still make records at their bedrooms now feel the need to get proper mastering jobs.
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Apostolos Siopis

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Re: Is mastering needed any more?
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2012, 10:41:41 AM »

I'm noticing the opposite actually!

People are starting to get tired of all those loud and crappy sounding records and they're now looking for proper recording and mastering studios.

And even those who still make records at their bedrooms now feel the need to get proper mastering jobs.

+1

...actually in Occupied Greece I have also noticed more and more musicians returning to the recording studios (few years ago they would just record in their basements) ...
...I have a feeling that those long hours of DIY trial and error worked to our benefit...

Apostolos


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Twerk

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Re: Is mastering needed any more?
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2012, 12:56:59 PM »

Work has never been better for me. Not only am I'm seeing more and more new producers come in for mastering, they come in with files that haven't been pre-smashed, and don't mind if they're not "the loudest record ever". Things are good!
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Is mastering needed any more?
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2012, 02:22:34 PM »

I will ASSume you are only talking about release direct to digital media.

While it is true some of the mechanical reasons for a separate sweetening/mastering step are no longer applicable, there was always an additional level of review applied to releases to correct those that were mastered at inappropriate levels or spectral balance.  In some cases this crossed over into full subjective production and some releases were surely bailed out by a mastering engineer that saved them from themselves.

There is no technical reason why a mastering step is required for direct to digital release, while many releases IMO can still benefit from another set of experienced ears.

Do you feel lucky punk... well do you? (dirty harry mastering)

JR
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jdg

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Re: Is mastering needed any more?
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2012, 08:18:56 PM »

i hope its not needed anymore, i think i want to get into competitive yoga and need to the free time to practice
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Jerry Tubb

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Re: Is mastering needed any more?
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2012, 08:07:40 AM »

insert the usual rebuttal here

(as we've had this discussion before, many times:)

JT

jdg, competitive yoga, is that like yogic flying the 100 meter dash?
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Joe_caithness

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Re: Is mastering needed any more?
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2012, 05:47:32 AM »

This topic again eh?

Most of my business is off guys and gals working in their bedrooms and recording in their garages.

Sometimes this music is cutting edge and exciting and they need a mastering guy to help present it to the world.

I've done some masters from bands recording live to 2 track akai digital recorder which have been released to critical acclaim.

It all depends where you work, the musical world is bigger than any of us will ever be able to comprehend and there will always be people who need their music to transfer from wherever it was made into the real world, whatever that is.
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MoreSpaceEcho

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Re: Is mastering needed any more?
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2012, 01:51:20 PM »

insert the usual rebuttal here

(as we've had this discussion before, many times:)

seriously. thomas, you make some variation of this post at least once a week on one board or another. it was tiresome 10 years ago and it's absolutely maddening now. your ratio of negative to positive posts, in terms of a distressor, is 'nuke'.

Hermetech Mastering

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Re: Is mastering needed any more?
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2012, 02:49:36 PM »

I have to agree with MoreSpaceEcho and Jerry above, I was going to post something very similar but held myself back. If it's such a downer for you, why not get out of the business all together? Suffice to say I do not agree with a lot of your OP.

Thomas W. Bethel

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Re: Is mastering needed any more?
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2012, 08:01:54 AM »

You guys amaze me. I see all of you posting how well you are doing, and I am very happy for you,  but if you really look around where I live and work there is nothing but doom and gloom. The major recording studios here have either gone out of business or have fired all their staff engineers, closed all their rooms except one and are holding on by a thread. My mentor who owns one of the best,  most professional recording studios in this area has gone from 11 employees to 6 and has recently changed his focus from audio to video production. The local area CD - DVD duplicator has gone from 17 employees to 1. Our local pro audio retailer has shut down their operations and fired all their employees. The biggest local non national music retailer with multiple stores closed down laying off all their employees and the owner is currently working for Sweetwater. Even the local Sam Ash and GC are having problems and their sales are way down.

Why is it so hard for some of you to understand that there are places around that ARE having major problems? I am getting rather discouraged but I am still in the game. I am sorry if I upset you but not everyone is seeing all the overwhelming amount of work coming in that you all seem to have.

And...by the way...what I said a couple of years ago about the whole mastering profession IS coming true BIG TIME. I doubt anyone here is really doing as well as they were a couple of years ago or they are doing like me and diversifying their offerings and keeping their options open.

FWIW and YMMV
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Thomas W. Bethel
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Allen Corneau

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Re: Is mastering needed any more?
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2012, 09:10:29 AM »

Thomas,

I'm sure no one is questioning the downturn in your area because it's a similar story in many places and many of us are feeling the squeeze. Folks are questioning why you continue to post pessimistic/apocalyptic stories, perspectives, and predictions.

There are many platitudes that can be quoted...

"The world is what you make it."
"When life hands you lemons, make lemonade."
"Always look on the bright side of life."

... and while the words might be a bit cliché the sentiments still apply.


Thomas, I wish you the best of luck and I hope you can find a bit of peace in your situation.

 
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Thomas W. Bethel

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Re: Is mastering needed any more?
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2012, 09:57:48 AM »

Thomas,

I'm sure no one is questioning the downturn in your area because it's a similar story in many places and many of us are feeling the squeeze. Folks are questioning why you continue to post pessimistic/apocalyptic stories, perspectives, and predictions.

There are many platitudes that can be quoted...

"The world is what you make it."
"When life hands you lemons, make lemonade."
"Always look on the bright side of life."

... and while the words might be a bit cliché the sentiments still apply.


Thomas, I wish you the best of luck and I hope you can find a bit of peace in your situation.

Thanks Allen!!!
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Thomas W. Bethel
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Acoustik Musik, Ltd.
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Joe_caithness

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Re: Is mastering needed any more?
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2012, 12:19:47 PM »



And...by the way...what I said a couple of years ago about the whole mastering profession is coming true BIG TIME. I doubt anyone here is really doing as well as they were a couple of years ago or they are doing like me and diversifying their offerings and keeping their options open.

FWIW and YMMV

Well, you seem wound up by the response in this thread, but generally I think it's for real what people have said here.

I can only speak from a new perspective, but Subsequent Mastering turned 3 years old today and I've gone from nothing to something in that time and have not diversified, in fact I've accidentally specialised in a few areas which are not lucrative yet, but I'm working on it. Perhaps you are just having a hard time and it's a personal thing because I can put my hand on my heart and say that musical scenes I have grown up in are getting more and more into the mastering ideal as more and more changes happen with audio formats and the world music is listened to. OK I don't make many physical masters, I probably never will, but the market(s) I've ended up catering for seem to be accumulating more and more engineers and they seem to be growing also. The world is a complicated place.
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Joe_caithness

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Re: Is mastering needed any more?
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2012, 12:20:20 PM »

^that's as close to gloaty I will ever get on a forum, believe me!  ;D
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Jerry Tubb

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Re: Is mastering needed any more?
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2012, 12:23:22 PM »

Hey Thomas,

Sad to hear things in your region are less than ideal bro'.

My objection is to the thread heading's ubiquitous tone.

Yes curious newbie cheapo DIY "mastering" is peaking at the moment.

Low budgets, digital democracy, etc.

But many real MEs are doing just fine, not in a down cycle, especially in busy music centers.

Good luck and best regards, JT
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MoreSpaceEcho

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Re: Is mastering needed any more?
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2012, 02:55:48 PM »

I doubt anyone here is really doing as well as they were a couple of years ago or they are doing like me and diversifying their offerings and keeping their options open.

always the optimist!

you must really be great fun at parties thomas.

fwiw, i have way more work now than i did a few years ago. i'm sure i'm not the only one keeping busy.

if it's all doom and gloom in your area, well, are you only doing mastering for local clients? if so, why? are you not getting clients from all over via the web? i certainly am, and i imagine most folks here are.

if you're not getting clients via the web, do you think your relentlessly negative posting style has anything to do with that? i've seen you refer to your clients' work as "garbage". on public messageboards. c'mon man. it's not just ME's who read these boards. if i were a mixer or artist looking for an ME i would NEVER EVER hire you just based on your posts.

do you ever see DC or brad or jerry or ANYONE talking shit about their clients the way you talk about yours? think about it.

as for the rise of DIY you're forever bemoaning, get over it already. sure, it's a bummer when any studio goes under, and no one likes to hear about the classic rooms in NYC or LA (or anywhere else) closing their doors. but times change. and you know, it's just music. no one's teaching themselves brain surgery or building their own skyscrapers out of balsa wood. no one's going to die because some band made a record at home.

and i don't know about you, but i've certainly heard loads of kick ass records that were recorded DIY/guerilla-style in basements/garages/practice spaces/wherever. and i've heard lots of records recorded at fancy studios for 2 grand a day that sound like the back of my nuts.

lots of people (i'm one) get into recording themselves not because they think they're god's gift to the universe (as you often imply), but because they're INTERESTED in it. they LIKE doing it. this is a bad thing how?

the vast majority of my clients are small studios/DIY artists. and you know, most everything that comes in sounds pretty damn good. needs a little eq, some compression and limiting. same as it ever was.

you're always saying the sky is falling, and EVERYONE ELSE says "actually man, it looks about the same height as usual". think about it.

Thomas W. Bethel

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Re: Is mastering needed any more?
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2012, 07:33:55 PM »

always the optimist!

you must really be great fun at parties thomas.

fwiw, i have way more work now than i did a few years ago. i'm sure i'm not the only one keeping busy.

if it's all doom and gloom in your area, well, are you only doing mastering for local clients? if so, why? are you not getting clients from all over via the web? i certainly am, and i imagine most folks here are.

if you're not getting clients via the web, do you think your relentlessly negative posting style has anything to do with that? i've seen you refer to your clients' work as "garbage". on public messageboards. c'mon man. it's not just ME's who read these boards. if i were a mixer or artist looking for an ME i would NEVER EVER hire you just based on your posts.

do you ever see DC or brad or jerry or ANYONE talking shit about their clients the way you talk about yours? think about it.

as for the rise of DIY you're forever bemoaning, get over it already. sure, it's a bummer when any studio goes under, and no one likes to hear about the classic rooms in NYC or LA (or anywhere else) closing their doors. but times change. and you know, it's just music. no one's teaching themselves brain surgery or building their own skyscrapers out of balsa wood. no one's going to die because some band made a record at home.

and i don't know about you, but i've certainly heard loads of kick ass records that were recorded DIY/guerilla-style in basements/garages/practice spaces/wherever. and i've heard lots of records recorded at fancy studios for 2 grand a day that sound like the back of my nuts.

lots of people (i'm one) get into recording themselves not because they think they're god's gift to the universe (as you often imply), but because they're INTERESTED in it. they LIKE doing it. this is a bad thing how?

the vast majority of my clients are small studios/DIY artists. and you know, most everything that comes in sounds pretty damn good. needs a little eq, some compression and limiting. same as it ever was.

you're always saying the sky is falling, and EVERYONE ELSE says "actually man, it looks about the same height as usual". think about it.

As I have always maintained some people on this board are super busy some are not so fortunate. Maybe it is where they are located or maybe it is because who they are. My video production company is doing fine and we are growing. Mastering has always been a good profession for me and I enjoy working with clients both in person and over the WWW via FTP. I really never wanted to get into video production but as Allen said when presented with lemons you make lemonade. The need for video production was something that I kept sensing from a lot of our commercial clients and it worked out that we could provide what they needed at the price they were willing to pay.

I am glad your mastering company is doing well. If you will read what I wrote and not jump to some conclusion that does not fit the facts I am suggesting that the profession of mastering may be in decline and that it is time for everyone to think about what else they can do if the mastering business does not pay the rent anymore.

I do think a lot of people on this board are not as well off as they would like others to believe.

I tend to tell it like it is. I have always been a WYSIWYG type of person and if that upsets you I am sorry.

If DC or Brad or Jerry was in the situation I find myself in maybe they would also be in somewhat of a funk. It is hard to tell since they are all doing well.

As to the DIYers.  Here they are doing everything themselves including their own mastering. Clients tell me that they no longer need me or my services since everything they do goes directly to the WWW as singles. If you have found a different reality with your clients then congrats to you. I still do mastering a lot of Indie clients and have a blast doing it. Some of the material the Indies bring me is awesome and amazing and when they tell me what they recorded it on I am simply amazed. Other clients are not so gifted at recording and mixing and I have to work somewhat harder but still turn out a great product for them.

I would be very pleased if I could work with mastering clients in my studio or on line everyday. At one time that was the way it was. Now mastering is something I do on a weekly basis where before it was on a daily basis. When I started my business 17 years ago I was one of two mastering engineers in this geographical area now there are literally hundreds of places that offer "mastering" as part of their services. Maybe that is something unique to this area maybe not.

I am really a fun loving person but somethings just get to me.

Have a GREAT day!
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Thomas W. Bethel
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Twerk

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Re: Is mastering needed any more?
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2012, 08:15:27 PM »

Thomas, I hope you continue to keep finding ways to stay busy!

Since you've been at this for 17+ years, you've seen the major shift, industry-wide, from major companies taking in major revenue, to small companies or individuals taking in minor revenue. On one hand we've lost the old school paradigm where it used to be hard to get signed and released, to the present where it only takes the creation of a Bandcamp page to be "signed and released". There are many, many pros and cons to this. I'll admit I started in the business when the majors had less of a grip on things, and thus found it less difficult to get the ball rolling on my own company. I've been mastering music now for 15 years and it truly has never been better for me than it is now. Perhaps it's because of the genres I work in. It's likely not a regional issue since 99% of my clients are not local. 70% of my clients are electronic music, and mastering (premastering) is still generally held in high regard amongst just about everyone involved. I'm coming across very few people doing self-mastering.

I'm suggesting that the old business models of mastering are in decline, but that mastering is as popular as ever.
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Apostolos Siopis

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Re: Is mastering needed any more?
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2012, 08:28:08 AM »

if you really look around where I live and work there is nothing but doom and gloom.

For what it's worth,
I know that Ohio isnt in the richest place in The US of America ...but do realise that some of us live and work in worse economic enviroments
(few numbers to take under consideration : the economy here shrinks by 5% every year for the last 5 years.... this year only, the wages in Occupied Greece, went down by 25.3% (the largest drop in the world)... unemployment is around 25% and furthermore 55% of the younger people (15-35) are jobless. More than 80% of what I earn ends up for tax payments.
Last but not least, just to put things under the right prespective, basic wages are around 500 euros per month, when 1 litre of gas costs 1.8 euros and the normal rent for a 2 bedroom flat is about 300 euros, which leaves a family with 200 euros to spend for the month.)

...but things will get better when my country is free again and I refuse to be depressed and will not give up...

Cheers from the Occupied Greece
Apostolos
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Thomas W. Bethel

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Re: Is mastering needed any more?
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2012, 08:46:03 AM »

For what it's worth,
I know that Ohio isnt in the richest place in The US of America ...but do realise that some of us live and work in worse economic enviroments
(few numbers to take under consideration : the economy here shrinks by 5% every year for the last 5 years.... this year only, the wages in Occupied Greece, went down by 25.3% (the largest drop in the world)... unemployment is around 25% and furthermore 55% of the younger people (15-35) are jobless. More than 80% of what I make ends up for tax payments.
Last but not least, just to put things under the right prespective, basic wages are around 500 euros per month, when 1 litre of gas costs 1.8 euros and the normal rent for a 2 bedroom flat is about 300 euros, which leaves a family with 200 euros to spend for the month.)

...but things will get better when my country is free again and I refuse to be depressed and will not give up...

Cheers from the Occupied Greece
Apostolos

My condolences and commiserations...
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Thomas W. Bethel
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Acoustik Musik, Ltd.
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Doing what you love is freedom.
Loving what you do is happiness.

Celebrating 29 years in business in 2024

When only the best will do...

Thomas W. Bethel

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Re: Is mastering needed any more?
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2012, 09:05:31 AM »

Thomas, I hope you continue to keep finding ways to stay busy!

Since you've been at this for 17+ years, you've seen the major shift, industry-wide, from major companies taking in major revenue, to small companies or individuals taking in minor revenue. On one hand we've lost the old school paradigm where it used to be hard to get signed and released, to the present where it only takes the creation of a Bandcamp page to be "signed and released". There are many, many pros and cons to this. I'll admit I started in the business when the majors had less of a grip on things, and thus found it less difficult to get the ball rolling on my own company. I've been mastering music now for 15 years and it truly has never been better for me than it is now. Perhaps it's because of the genres I work in. It's likely not a regional issue since 99% of my clients are not local. 70% of my clients are electronic music, and mastering (premastering) is still generally held in high regard amongst just about everyone involved. I'm coming across very few people doing self-mastering.

I'm suggesting that the old business models of mastering are in decline, but that mastering is as popular as ever.

Yes I know that the old business model is broken and just like Humpty Dumpty made not ever make it back together again.

It is ironic that Acoustik Musik never had any contracts with big record companies and most of our mastering is/was always for independent artists. Working with indie artist was/is always a good thing and I got to hear some amazing productions over the years. Most of the clients that started with us are still with us only now they are not putting out CDs anymore and are instead going to the WWW to sell their wares. Most of them still want mastering done but a few have told me that because they are putting up singles they feel they do not need or want to get the material mastered.

It is also true that the number of DIYers around these parts has grown exponentially over the years and many of them seem to think that their stuff is so perfect it does not need mastering or they want do it themselves.

In my 17 years in this profession I have helped a lot of artists realize their dreams by mastering their materials. It is sad that today a lot of what I hear on the WWW is so badly done and could really benefit from some collaboration with a mastering engineer but the artists seem to shun that idea and want to go it by themselves. Our rates are more than reasonable and I have a lot of experience under my belt that could really help some of these artist but they don't seem to want anyone else involved in "their music".

Music use to be a very collaborative undertaking but today many musicians want to do everything themselves and are not looking for collaborations with anyone. Too bad!!!

FWIW and YMMV

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Thomas W. Bethel
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Acoustik Musik, Ltd.
http://www.acoustikmusik.com/

Doing what you love is freedom.
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Celebrating 29 years in business in 2024

When only the best will do...

mmarra

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Re: Is mastering needed any more?
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2012, 08:17:23 PM »

I really hope mastering is still a service that will be needed for many many years to come. I'm very early into my mastering career, just over 5 yrs, and just this year landed an apprenticeship/freelance gig at one of Canada's most prestigious mastering studios, Joao Carvalho Mastering (JCM). The studio owner, Joao, has mentioned that he and other his resident engineers are just as busy as ever. Also since joining JCM, early this year, my stock in the city and across the country has been on rise as well.

I'm hoping to one day move away from my day job and put more focus on mastering in the future as I truly love all aspects of it but I know that will take time as the industry is not what it use to be. I think that if you have the mentality to constantly be evolving and adapting to what is happening in the industry....along with great customer service and the ability to produce great work you will succeed over the DIY mastering that is occurring out there. This may be an optimistic way at looking at things but the strong will prevail in the end....but you might take a few bumps & bruise along the way but that is part of the game.

Please everyone help keep professional mastering alive as us newbies, in trying to get into the professional realm of things, would greatly appreciated  ;)
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Mike Marra (P.Eng)
João Carvalho Mastering
http://www.joaocarvalhomastering.com & http://elitemastering.com
Toronto, Canada

djwaudio

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Re: Is mastering needed any more?
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2012, 12:27:42 AM »

Hang on to that spirit, Mike!
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Respectfully submitted,

Dana J White
Specialized Mastering
www.specializedmastering.com

Thomas W. Bethel

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Re: Is mastering needed any more?
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2012, 09:32:50 AM »

I really hope mastering is still a service that will be needed for many many years to come. I'm very early into my mastering career, just over 5 yrs, and just this year landed an apprenticeship/freelance gig at one of Canada's most prestigious mastering studios, Joao Carvalho Mastering (JCM). The studio owner, Joao, has mentioned that he and other his resident engineers are just as busy as ever. Also since joining JCM, early this year, my stock in the city and across the country has been on rise as well.

I'm hoping to one day move away from my day job and put more focus on mastering in the future as I truly love all aspects of it but I know that will take time as the industry is not what it use to be. I think that if you have the mentality to constantly be evolving and adapting to what is happening in the industry....along with great customer service and the ability to produce great work you will succeed over the DIY mastering that is occurring out there. This may be an optimistic way at looking at things but the strong will prevail in the end....but you might take a few bumps & bruise along the way but that is part of the game.

Please everyone help keep professional mastering alive as us newbies, in trying to get into the professional realm of things, would greatly appreciated  ;)

It is this type of attitude that I really like to see. I still think mastering is one of the best jobs in the whole world. Where else can you get paid for listening to good music all day long and have a REAL impact on the quality of that music???

Our customer services is and always has been the BEST. Returning satisfied clients are our most important resource and also by them spreading the word are our best form of free advertising.

Congratulations on landing a good apprenticeship/freelance job in Canada. One of my interns will be starting a masters degree in audio media at McGill University this next school year.

I hope mastering is around for a good long time and I hope that people like you will make it.

Again congratulations and keep up the spirit.
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Thomas W. Bethel
Managing Director
Acoustik Musik, Ltd.
http://www.acoustikmusik.com/

Doing what you love is freedom.
Loving what you do is happiness.

Celebrating 29 years in business in 2024

When only the best will do...

Treelady

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Re: Is mastering needed any more?
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2012, 02:38:10 PM »

DIY bands recording and mixing in sub-optimal spaces need mastering more than ever. 

It's our job to convince them of that through reason and results.

This is not an easy task.

Best wishes to all of the participants, and keep up the good fight.
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Garrett Haines
Chief Mastering Engineer, Treelady Studios, Pittsburgh, PA
Senior Contributor, Tape Op Magazine

Jerry Tubb

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Re: Is mastering needed any more?
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2012, 06:17:09 PM »

I think there's room for all of us...

Pro mastering

Studio mastering

DIY mastering

JT
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Terra Nova Mastering
Celebrating 25 years of Mastering!
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