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Author Topic: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles  (Read 17683 times)

Dan Lawrence

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Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« on: April 26, 2012, 04:42:25 pm »

I'm having trouble with some new back-up drives for my Alesis HD24 XR . They were purchased from a reputable audio dealer to spec for the recorder, only 6 times the memory of the original drives (500g vs 80g) Both drives are Western Dig.

The problem, first off, seems to take issue when I mount the drive. The first 70 percent loads up lickity split, just like the old drive. But right at that point, the mounting always gets stuck in the mud, and takes about a minute and a half to fully load - when it WOULD fully load.

Which it did, at first, using the Master/single config as I understand it.( SEE BELOW) Then I formatted the disk with no problems I could see.) But when I tried to copy to it, it got about 90 percent through the copy, then booted out my new drive, sending out insidious improper dismount warnings. It also said I didn't have sufficient space for the material. I tried this twice with the same results. So I decided to see if it would accept a recording signal. No problems I could setting up for a new song, naming it, and putting a few seconds of bass on there.

I do understand the jumper pin issue in theory. The new drive comes with the jumper across 1/2, but the jumper config diagram shows clearly that the proper pin use for a "single/master" application (the only app usable w/ Alesis HD24 XR , says the manual) is NO PIN JUMPER at all. Interestingly enough, the original 80g drive shows the same jumper pin schematic as the new one, but the original has the jumper across pins 9/10 (far left). I boldly tried that config as well, but Using that config wouldn't allow the new drive to mount, and, in fact, after trying that one, the jumperless set wouldn't mount either. No the drive doesn't mount in either setup.

Suggestions?

Much appreciated,

Dan
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Fletcher

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2012, 09:49:43 pm »

Hmmm -- you're over my head for sure.  Have you contacted Alesis about this?
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

Dan Lawrence

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2012, 10:49:57 pm »

Thats my next step, for sure. Just thought I'd overlooked something obvious.

Thanks,

Dan
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Jeff Ling

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2012, 02:48:27 pm »

My HD24's have been kind of picky about what drives would work. Some drives worked while others wouldn't. I've had good luck with seagate drives, but have had other drives work as well. Try a different brand or different series of the same brand.
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Dan Lawrence

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2012, 09:42:16 pm »

Thanks Jeff. I've had another reccommendation for Seagates for this app. I also had someone report he had the exact same symptons, and cleared them up using de-oxit on the contacts. In any case, sure appreciate the input.

dd
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t_chance

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2012, 11:40:31 pm »

http://tech.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/hd24/

I've had great luck with the Maxtor diamond series.
Your new drive probably needs more power than the HD24 was designed for outputing.
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Fletcher

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2012, 08:21:41 am »

Just curious... was Alesis contacted?
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

Jim Williams

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2012, 11:50:22 am »

Alesis used to have a list of acceptable drives on their web site.

Better yet is to invest in a couple of Magic Sound SATA caddies and install a solid state drive.

Then the only moving part will be the fan.
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Fletcher

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2012, 01:19:04 pm »

Have the prices on solid-state drives become more reasonable these days?  I was Apple was using them in the new MacBooks [or whatever their laptop is called these days]... when I first looked into them they were prohibitively expensive [like to do an album on one would have cost more than tape kind of expensive].
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

Jim Williams

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2012, 11:02:48 am »

SSD's are now about a buck a gig and going down.
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Fletcher

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2012, 02:34:07 pm »

Wow... that's amazing.  Really is no reason to not go solid state!!!
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

kirkhawley

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2012, 12:33:46 pm »

Maybe you already know this, but I don't see anybody mentioning it so here goes.

HD24's were designed for use with PATA hard drives. PATA drives are pretty hard to find these days, almost all hard drives on the market are SATA. SATA drives don't normally work with HD24's. I'd look around and try to find some old PATA drives.

My HD24 is still filled with PATA drives, but I have to admit I don't use it much any more. There have been some SATA to PATA conversion hardware kits that will convert an HD24 caddy to use SATA drives.
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Jim Williams

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2012, 12:59:39 pm »

Magic Sound sells the custom black caddies. Buy a couple and forget about it.

As for Western Digital PATA drives, I also have one with similar problems the OP stated. It's a 320 gig WD3200AAJB.

Only one jumper setting will work. It will load up to 70% then dismount. If you try and reload, it will go eventually to 100%, but still stalls at 90% for a few seconds. Once loaded, it works fine but I worry about it so I don't trust that drive. My Maxtors all work fine.
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Peps

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2012, 03:38:45 pm »

I believe the Magic Sound SATA-caddies are out of stock. But Alesis now sell SATA-caddies:
http://www.alesis.com/hd24satacaddy
I echo t_chance's suggestion : Go to  http://tech.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/hd24/  and join the group. In the files section (members only) there's a disk compability list.

Peps

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Fletcher

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2012, 08:43:50 am »

Good information - but I have to wonder if there is any reason not to go to a solid state storage system at this point... the cost seems to have come down to "reasonable".
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

Jim Williams

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2012, 12:23:40 pm »

Compatability is an issue. Several brands do not work in the HD24. Avoid Corsair F series. OCZ Vertex 2 60 and 90 gig and the Crucial M4 are OK.

If you try others, make sure you can return them if they don't work.
Add the Silenx 14 db noise fan and you have a near silent recorder.
www.silenx.com
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Fletcher

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2012, 03:54:11 pm »

Pardon my being somewhat obtuse about these drives - are they solid state or do they have moving parts?
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

Jim Williams

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2012, 12:22:39 pm »

Those are all SSD's. Several new brands/types are now out, I have no info on their compatability.

If you open one up you will see a pcb stuffed with large memory chips, that's all these things are, memory chips replacing moving magnetic discs and motors.

In ten years you will be hard pressed to find a traditional hard drive, the chips are cheaper to manufacture. As their memory capabilities improve they will catch up to a terabit pretty soon.
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Fletcher

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2012, 01:04:26 pm »

Good to know - greatly appreciate the information!!

Peace
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

Dinogi

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2012, 06:58:44 am »

As a video guy, I have seen the use of solid state memory become the norm. The cost is coming down but is still quite an investment. The cameras I use take five 64gig P2 cards, which means about 3,500 dollars to fill the camera. The upside is that these things can take a beating that would turn a hard drive, or even an SSD drive into a paper weight. The computer equivalent to an SM57? It would seem to be a wise business move for someone to adapt a portable 24 track like the Alesis recorder for solid state memory. I also think there are a lot of advantages to card based removable storage over internal SSD drives, but thats another thread.
dinogiammattei
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New Orleans Steve

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2012, 02:12:48 am »

 
  Yes. I think the problem here is the Western Digital drive. They can be iffy. Some are good... but others..... I am betting you have a Blue or Green Caviar W.D. Those are a no go.

  I went through this the hard way. I put up with the problems booting up.  mine was taking an average of 4 or 5 tries to get it. I put up with it, until I got burned on a session. It just wouldn't kick in and the band was hot to track. There was like a 15 min. delay over the usual. A real buzz killer, for sure. Then after MANY sessions on it, I attempted digital transfers between the drive bays. I rarely do this and it did not work at all.

  BTW, once they do boot up, there fine. Despite the lack of ability to do drive to drive transfers, the W.D. was fine for fireport firewire transfers back and forth.
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Steve Daffner Frenchmen Street Records - Straightwire Studios

PookyNMR

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2012, 05:13:25 pm »

I've been through this issue with my former HD24 units.

A number of the higher capacity WD drives do not spin at the advertised speed and thus the HD24 will not mount them.  This is what Alesis tech support had told me.  The unit looks for a number of conditions to be satisfied before the drive mounts.  If they are not satisfied, the drive won't mount.  A number of other drives were also incompatible for similar reasons - they were not manufactured up to the same spec. 

The last I used my HD24s before I let them go, the Seagate drives were working properly and never gave me any troubles mounting.

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stillonreels

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2012, 06:31:01 pm »

I believe the Magic Sound SATA-caddies are out of stock. But Alesis now sell SATA-caddies:
http://www.alesis.com/hd24satacaddy
I echo t_chance's suggestion : Go to  http://tech.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/hd24/  and join the group. In the files section (members only) there's a disk compability list.

Peps

Has anyone used an off-the-shelf PATA (IDE) to SATA converter with success? I'm getting an HD24 and am going to convert to SSD for noise issues. I am not, however, going to spend $100 (possibly twice) to get a new caddy from Alesis when I suspect the electronics inside are nothing more than, say, this:

http://www.amazon.com/HDE-SATA-Drive-Interface-Adapter/dp/B002Y2NI4M

I would rather mod the existing caddy. Does anyone KNOW if there is indeed ANYTHING that would cause a standard adapter NOT to work, or have you done this conversion?

Let's substitute the discussion about "cheap Chinese components" with a link to a better working adapter than the first result on google.

Thanks!
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Jim Williams

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2012, 01:07:03 pm »

Either the Magic Sound or Alesis SATA caddies should be used. Then mount a SSD, a 60 gig is about $60 bucks now if you shop around. Do a fast format, do not do a long format on SSD's, you will have problems. Since there are no bad "sectors" on a SSD, you don't need long formats with those. In fact, I've had nothing but problems with their long format protocalls so I never do that on PATA drives either.

Someone will probably make an adaptor to use USB drives next. Then you can pocket your album project in your shirt. I remember loading in reels of 2" tape, hurt my back once doing that.

Does Radar allow SSD's now in their caddies? Last time I used a Radar the machine noise drove me nuts, like sitting next to a washing machine. My HD24 XR with the 14 dbu low noise Silenx fan is silent now, very enjoyable.
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stillonreels

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2012, 01:56:34 pm »

Hey Jim-

Thanks for the information. The reason I'm asking is because I'm trying to stick to a budget. Using the Alesis caddies basically double the cost, as they cost $100 each with no hdd. (The $29 on their website are out of stock and I assume they're not coming back.) Magic Sound isn't selling these anymore. 

Do you know of anyone who has successfully used an off the shelf converter, or even anyone who tried and failed? I'm trying to figure out what the underlying reason NOT to use one of these converters is.

Thanks!

Either the Magic Sound or Alesis SATA caddies should be used. Then mount a SSD, a 60 gig is about $60 bucks now if you shop around. Do a fast format, do not do a long format on SSD's, you will have problems. Since there are no bad "sectors" on a SSD, you don't need long formats with those. In fact, I've had nothing but problems with their long format protocalls so I never do that on PATA drives either.

Someone will probably make an adaptor to use USB drives next. Then you can pocket your album project in your shirt. I remember loading in reels of 2" tape, hurt my back once doing that.

Does Radar allow SSD's now in their caddies? Last time I used a Radar the machine noise drove me nuts, like sitting next to a washing machine. My HD24 XR with the 14 dbu low noise Silenx fan is silent now, very enjoyable.
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Jim Williams

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2012, 11:34:56 am »

I bought a couple of PATA to SATA "adaptors", really pcb's with conversion connectors. One was a one way, PATA to SATA, the other one was supposed to be bi-directional. They will fit into an Alesis PATA caddie IF you use 2.5" sized laptop drives. I got them for about ten bucks each from:

www.mcmelectronics.com

Here's the bad news: They don't work, none of them. Buy an Alesis caddie, drop in a SATA drive and be done with it. Better yet, go SSD and never worry about it again. Or, buy used PATA drives. You can find them at any computer fixin' shop for very low cost. No one wants them so they are giving them away. Sure beats dropping $160 for 17 minutes of 2" tape, ehh?
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Fletcher

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2012, 09:31:38 am »

Sure beats dropping $160 for 17 minutes of 2" tape, ehh?

Not in my world... YMMV
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

Jim Williams

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2012, 12:37:46 pm »

I quit analog tape when Scotch stopped making it in 1993. Last thing I need is to worry about tape stock, finding a blank spot or some drop-out on some critical take, no thanks, I like CYA recording.
So I sold off all the analog tape recorders in 1993 and use great converters instead, me happy.

I trusted 996, never trusted Ampex for good reasons. I don't trust any of the current tape manufacturers and I won't use NOS old tape either. I will use a hard drive and a top-o line converter without concern. No one wants to pay for analog tape anymore around here, a couple hundred bucks for 17 minutes is a bit much. I've also pinned on analog tape distorions, they drive me nuts. I can't accept 4~5% THD at 100 hz and 10k hz, too much for me now days, I've been spoiled by low THD sound.
Yes, my mileage did vary quit a bit.
So, did you give up on Radar and go back to 3M recorders?
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Fletcher

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2012, 01:55:26 pm »

Nah - RADAR is wonderful... but if nothing else, its nice to be around the old washing machines because it takes skills to use them.  Hard to describe I guess, the amazing acceleration of the dumbing down of our industry makes me pine for the old days when "decisions" had to be made during the process... and tape [and for that matter RADAR] forces those decisions -- which at the end of the day -- right or wrong -- is a decision made, and becomes part of the production.

Seeing as skills [on either end -- performing or engineering] aren't really necessary anymore I guess I'm just an old bitter man that waxes poetic for the fondly remembered times of yesteryear... when sitting around for a dozen hours and comping a vocal track while spot erasing breaths could almost be a relaxing day.  When budgets didn't dictate that you have a song "done" in two days from start to finish... and the first half hour or so of the day was spent on your knees checking the machine's alignment because it was your [or in my case - my] ass that was on the line if shit wasn't perfect.

It is what it is... life moves on -- its just tough to get past $7- microphones used on "auto-tuned" vocals being called music.

Peace
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

Jim Williams

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2013, 01:12:15 pm »

I hear ya, then again I've got a bunch of $39 Chi-com mics I rebuilt with really good EU capsules that best some of my most expensive "name brand mics".

I enjoyed aligning analog recorders, I'm very good at it using my AP analyzer to find the bias sweet spots. Now days some see me as some sort of wizard being able to do that stuff. It used to be called basic maintanence, now it's Guru Land!

About all I miss about that stuff is the smell of new Scotch 250 tape, yummy!

40 years ago I had crappy recording gear and fantastic artists.

Now I have fantastic recording gear and crappy artists.
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Fletcher

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2013, 05:41:18 pm »


40 years ago I had crappy recording gear and fantastic artists.

Now I have fantastic recording gear and crappy artists.

I hear ya... much better the first way than the 2nd way... but I'm a fossil - whadda I know?
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

Dan Lawrence

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2013, 02:49:42 pm »

I just wanted to update my posting, although I think all the great info here on drives, compatibility and what works/doesn't, etc, has been more valuable than my initial question. FWIW, I have since solved my problem, but without changing drives or styles. I had never updated my operating system on my HD24. I had to go through the process of acquiring the proper integration software and learning to connect my Mac, etc. But after several tries I still couldn't seem to make it happen, even after I believed I'd done the procedure correctly, and even after I swear the HD stated it had the latest operating system installed. At that point, the Alesis moderators suggested that the  update could only be done via MIDI, and since that opens up a whole different can of worms for me, I got sidetracked for a few months. Later, I retried the same update via ethernet connection, and VOILA ... I almost couldn't believe it. But now y'all can appreciate why I haven't gone to a DAW ... just get to lost in all those menus, updates proceedures and protocols. The analog world is so much easier for me to integrate, and the HD represents a digital tracking solution that feels (mostly) analog.

Thanks to all who contributed

dd
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Fletcher

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2013, 10:57:13 am »

Glad to hear you found a solution!!

Peace
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

Jim Williams

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Re: Alesis HD24 XR Replacement drive troubles
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2013, 11:30:22 am »

That's probably why I've had no problems with mine. I downloaded the newer software when a customer sent another newer machine in for mods. I used the midi cable and it worked in about 2 minutes.

If you get the analog/digital selection for each pair of tracks you have it.
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