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[Malotki]

Hello All

I'm new round here ! Been lurking around the forums... Ive got some projects that I found info on here.
Anyway....In a box of things from  an engineer ( amongst many other things, and a very intersting and historically interesting German engineer )  guy in the UK I found this little round disc... wasnt too sure what it was but realised today its a backplate from a microphone. Im pretty sure its a Neumann part as this guy hade some other bits of theirs. Can anyone help me identify it please ?


Dave

[klaus]

This backplate has the hole pattern, ridges and dimensions typical for an M7.
The M7 was invented by Neumann, but is now copied by several aftermarket shops, so the ultimate identification of this part as an original Neumann backplate can only be confirmed if you can find a three or four-digit embossed serial number along its rim.

It will be very hard or impossible to use this backplate again as building block for a functioning capsule, because the center section with its plastic thread for the lead out screw is missing or has been drilled out.

[Malotki]

Hello Klaus

Thanks for the reply. The centre section is still there and has not been drilled. It would seem it is unused because of this. The number is 106 stamped on the very outer . Do you know its age from this number ? The previous owner was : www.interstudio.co.uk/fwo.htm

Dave

[klaus]

I am suspicious as to the origin of this thing, if the center section has not been threaded. The whole affair strikes me as a prototype of some sort- the color hue and lack of gloss are unusual for the brass Neumann uses- too much copper, and rather matte (or is the JPG's tint off?)

Can you take a close-up photo of the serial number?

[Malotki]

I can confirm the provenance of the object, if you have looked at the previous owner you will see he was "the" Neumann importer in the UK post war. I have other objects and documents from his estate. But sure it may be a prototype . I'll get you a photo in daylight soon of the serial. Can you date from the serial ?

[Malotki]

a camera phone picture
http://www.sonorouslocus.co.uk/nm1.jpghttp://www.sonorouslocus.co.uk/nm1.jpg
I will try and take a picture on a canon digi slr at work later.

As I say the guy who owned this was closely linked with Neumann, friends with with Willie Studer and in germany at the time of manufacture of early mics. So it is very possable he picked this up from the factory or was given it.

I guess he could also have picked up a copy or prototype from someone building new versions. He did pass away in 1996 so no later then that.

He was an interesting chap alright. I also picked up a copy ( 1/4" ) of the  " first " plastic based magnetic tape recordings made in Berlin in 1939 and a later one in 1941 ( albeit bbc copies ) I missed the chance to buy 10 or so war time German high speed recordings.... But I know where they are....
Dave

[klaus]

Looks like a genuine Neumann M7 backplate. What is mystifying is the undrilled and unthreaded center.
I have not come across a dating scheme for M7 capsules by serial number.

[Malotki]

Thanks for the ID Klaus . On dating of capsules I found this article on sound on sounds website : http://www.soundonsound.com/news?NewsID=11958
The capsule here is serial 123 . I guess if you used this as a reference to dating and worked sequentially it would mean my capsule being earlier would date from between 1932 and 1945 . I would think that Neumann themselves can help, I will get in touch.

I am thinking that if in good enough condition and hoping it isn't a reject it could be drilled tapped and skinned ?.....

The question is why was it not drilled..... another question for Neumann. Now why didnt I buy the other two capsules I saw with broken skins....doh

Dave

[klaus]

(...)
The capsule here is serial 123 . I guess if you used this as a reference to dating and worked sequentially it would mean my capsule being earlier would date from between 1932 and 1945.

Sorry to correct you: the capsule head being auctioned off in the link you cited bears the serial number 123, not the capsule itself.  There is no direct correlation between Neumann KK serial numbers and capsule serial numbers. There is a rough, imprecise way to date an M7 capsule: by the number, depth, width and type of ridges on the backplate's periphery.

[Malotki]

To be pedantic the article is misleading in that it says the capsule has the serial of 123 not the capsule head,  but I get your point that it probably means the head.  Unless it was unmarked as early units may be and the capsule. itself is where the serial was found.

[Malotki]

ok its marked on the front my mistake....

[John Willett]

You could e-mail Neumann in Berlin to see if they know - and/or - also contact Gefell in Germany. 

Neumann moved the factory to Gefell during the war because of the bombing in Berlin.  Gefell remained the Neumann factory until the Iron Curtain came up and it was trapped.  Neumann then built a new factory in Berlin (later moved to Wedemark) and the original factory remained in Gefell behind the Iron Curtain.

Gefell is now a separate company in its own right, but still makes original Georg Neumann capsules - so they will know a lot of the history and I think the official Georg Neumann Museum is in Gefell rather than Berlin.

[Malotki]

Hi John

Thanks for the reply. Did you know of F W O Bauch ? he was the previous owner of the backplate. Really interesting guy , I have some more bits and peices of his...
dave

[David Satz]

John, I don't want to drag this thread further off-topic, but some of what you say is at odds with world history and your own employer's published history, which says that Mr. Neumann moved his company back to Berlin in 1947 after Thuringia (including Gefell) was assigned to the Russian zone of occupation. The Neumann U 47, M 49, M 50, KM 54, KM 56 and other models came from Berlin, not Gefell, and were produced well before the Berlin Wall went up in 1961.

The contrary (or perhaps contrarian) view of this history is that for some years after the war ended, components from Gefell played a greater role in Neumann's Berlin production than the present-day Neumann firm chooses to acknowledge. If that is true, it's not publicly known which kinds of components were supplied, or how many, or when. According to Neumann Berlin, however, their production stopped relying on anything from Gefell by 1953.

--best regards