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Author Topic: Mastering Engineers seemingly under attack in online forums  (Read 4523 times)

Infrasonic Sound

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Re: Mastering Engineers seemingly under attack in online forums
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2011, 11:16:33 pm »

Just not wondering.

Agreed. I haven't heard anyone outside of Internet Land discuss this...at lease not enough to care. While I'm not caring, can I include post about the "Loudness Wars" as well?

Pete Lyman
Infrasonic Mastering

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Paradox Uncreated

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Re: Mastering Engineers seemingly under attack in online forums
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2012, 03:19:31 pm »

I think that a lot of "online mastering engineers" are not fit for the task. I did a post looking for mastering on gearslutz, and about 10 "engineers" contacted me, providing a sample master, of a sample I provided. NONE of them were good. I also contacted some local online services, where one returned a sample master, which was useless.
My thoughts go to one guy who has a lot of gear and plugins. He also think he does "mastering" sometimes, but you know, he thinks the plugins will do the magic, or putting it randomly through some analog gear will add magic or something. Atleast he doesn`t quite get the right sound.

And that was kinda the one guy all these "me"s were. Swimmy analog stuff, even I told them "only digital". Not that good sounding EQ, and not all loudness EQ, which really is what mastering these days is all about. And none of them pushed the dynamics to current levels.

Before this I thought mastering engineers mostly took the audio to the level and frequencyresponse of modern popmasters. But it turned out, I could do this much better on my own. They had no expertise, over my own. And even if they sat in corrected specially designed rooms, with exorbiantly expensive speakers, that did them no good.

In my opinion, if you can`t make it sound like popular artists, then forget about it.
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Hermetech Mastering

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Re: Mastering Engineers seemingly under attack in online forums
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2012, 05:39:52 pm »

ok, so you you can do it all better by yourself, right? no need for analogue hardware? maybe time to leave this forum then? we are a generally extremely friendly and helpful bunch who help each other out on a daily basis, but i guess you don't need that, right?

the biggest bone of contention i have with your post is on the loudness issue. you seem to be of the opinion that loudness is the only thing that matters, and, i quote, "In my opinion, if you can`t make it sound like popular artists, then forget about it." well, most of my clients come to me precisely because they understand that i hold sound quality above loudness, and will make their recordings sound better, not just louder. are you really saying that if you don't slam something like "star X", you might as well not be in the business? what a sad and boring place that would be...

from your other post, i agree that KVR can be a weird place though!

Twerk

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Re: Mastering Engineers seemingly under attack in online forums
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2012, 06:36:40 pm »

In my opinion, if you can`t make it sound like popular artists, then forget about it.

I'm not trying to argue with you but this statement above makes me cringe a bit. There are a lot of popular artists that have chosen to push their sound into unlistenable territory (to me). I personally don't want to be in a world where dynamics and aesthetic are chosen by consensus on what's popular in the charts. Of course there are plenty of popular acts with great masters, but despite this, just because something is popular doesn't mean it sounds good from a technical standpoint. There are many, many cases that prove otherwise. But the bottom line is that popularity is driven by sales, and sales is not driven by technical quality. I urge you to prove otherwise.

The kids don't care. But I do.

As for your original point, I wouldn't disagree that there are a lot of engineers that don't do quality work, just like every other business that exists. That's where doing some homework pays off. When I get my own music mastered, I don't take 10 random samples from engineers I know nothing about on a public forum. I figure out who's mastering my favorite artists, and I check their releases to see if they jive with my expectations. IMO, you were setting yourself up for failure from the start.
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Paradox Uncreated

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Re: Mastering Engineers seemingly under attack in online forums
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2012, 10:36:29 pm »

Babaluma: Yes I can :) And absolutely no need for analog hardware. The very thought makes me creep out. I hope this forum is not only about analog hardware and those who claim to help others by it, lol. But it can be interesting to hear the opinion of others, but I feel no need to agree with it. But people do things their way. And loud to me is in no conflict with "good". I can take it to the loudness I want, and it will still sound good. And that is very loud.

And yes, you read my other post too, good. KvR definately is not the place most respecting of democracy and freedom of religion. They are very odd. Agreeing on that alone, is a big plus though.

Twerk: Unlistenable territory? As DSP gets better, people keep pushing the volume, and what was unlistenable 5 years ago, is standard today. Ofcourse DSP is improved, so it sounds overall better. My general attitude is, uneccesary peaks, are uneccesary. If they can be limited, one should do that as much as possible. Generally with good DSP, one can go quite loud, and still sound very good. Now ofcourse I have been using my own DSP for many years. But I have also tested stuff like L3. Which is ok, but probably needs to iterate, since I feel I need to use EQ after it. And only for peaks. Driven it sounds harsh. A limiter tuned for loudness sounds more natural there though, than just general DSP.

About mastering engineers, there really are no local guys here, who are mastering any of my favorite artists. I could send it off to well known companies like Bernie Grundman or whatever. But you know, it just gets too obscure. Getting it mastered halfway on the other side of the world.

Anyway I learned myself mostly what it is about. And that is quite nice, to wield that mastering axe on ones own. A bit of power, to get exactly the sound one wants, on ones own music.

You should try my limiter, in my other post. Try it as the final loudness step in its standard setting!

Peace!
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Twerk

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Re: Mastering Engineers seemingly under attack in online forums
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2012, 11:54:11 pm »

Unlistenable as in obvious distortion, and fatiguing lack of dynamic range. It's probably just a sign that I'm getting old. ;)

I'd definitely like to check out your limiter when I get a chance. I use OSX in the studio, but I do have Windows installed for testing out Windows only stuff. I'll get back to you on my impressions.
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Paradox Uncreated

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Re: Mastering Engineers seemingly under attack in online forums
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2012, 07:28:03 am »

Maybe you just haven`t had the right limiter. The edgyness of some DSP, makes one reluctant to use it.
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John Scrip - MASSIVE Mastering

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Re: Mastering Engineers seemingly under attack in online forums
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2012, 11:20:39 am »

"The right" limited aside -- "hardly any" dynamic range doesn't sound as good as "a decent amount of" dynamic range. 

I'm not saying some limiters aren't better than others -- Just as some "clipping" is better than others -- But they're simply controlling the damage. 
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John Scrip - MASSIVE Mastering
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