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Author Topic: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet  (Read 19546 times)

Patrik T

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #105 on: January 28, 2011, 09:54:00 am »

I think  more energy should be put into emulating noise characteristics rather than distortion characteristics when software developers glance at hardware.


Best Regards
Patrik
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Geoff Emerick de Fake

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #106 on: January 28, 2011, 06:02:25 pm »

Jerry Tubb wrote on Fri, 28 January 2011 06:55

As to the OP, I wouldn't even use the word "yet"...

which implies that plug-in domination is inevitable.
I'm not sure about the "domination". But the existence of plug-ins is indisputable. And not wanting to use them is depriving one's self of functionalities not available otherwise.
Quote:

 Hardware rules ; - )
Just like a digital delay or reverb is a combination of hardware and software, there is no reason why a recording or mastering chain could not be also an hybrid, taking the best of both worlds. Any piece of audio hardware is the combination of material and intellectual components. It has largely been shown in the past - and today - that lousy hardware can exist. You can't condemn plug-ins on the basis that some are a real failure, no more that one could condemn hardware because some are real lemon.
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Jerry Tubb

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #107 on: January 28, 2011, 07:38:51 pm »

Geoff Emerick de Fake wrote on Fri, 28 January 2011 17:02

Jerry Tubb wrote on Fri, 28 January 2011 06:55

As to the OP, I wouldn't even use the word "yet"...

which implies that plug-in domination is inevitable.
I'm not sure about the "domination". But the existence of plug-ins is indisputable. And not wanting to use them is depriving one's self of functionalities not available otherwise.
Quote:

 Hardware rules ; - )
Just like a digital delay or reverb is a combination of hardware and software, there is no reason why a recording or mastering chain could not be also an hybrid, taking the best of both worlds. Any piece of audio hardware is the combination of material and intellectual components. It has largely been shown in the past - and today - that lousy hardware can exist. You can't condemn plug-ins on the basis that some are a real failure, no more that one could condemn hardware because some are real lemon.


Preachin' to the choir.

I've been using recording hardware since the mid 1960s

and plug-ins since the Q10 was first released in 1993.

My Sontec rocks, any digital EQ is just... OK.

Cheers, JT
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Geoff Emerick de Fake

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #108 on: January 29, 2011, 08:19:00 am »

I have no doubt the Sontec is a fine piece of gear.
But I regularly use digital EQ's and plug-ins, and though many are not even worth the time spent to test them, some are real fine for me.
The problem is that creating an EQ seems like a ritual of passage for DSP/plug-in developpers, and we are invaded with EQ plug-ins that make no sense. It's not a reason to throw the proverbial baby...
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Jerry Tubb

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #109 on: January 29, 2011, 01:31:11 pm »

Geoff Emerick de Fake wrote on Sat, 29 January 2011 07:19

I have no doubt the Sontec is a fine piece of gear.
But I regularly use digital EQ's and plug-ins, and though many are not even worth the time spent to test them, some are real fine for me.
The problem is that creating an EQ seems like a ritual of passage for DSP/plug-in developpers, and we are invaded with EQ plug-ins that make no sense. It's not a reason to throw the proverbial baby...


Plug-ins seem to do best in jobs that are difficult or inconvenient  in the analog world.

I haven't heard any plug-in compressor that floats my boat, although the UAD Fairchild is interesting.

I see from your profile that you've been audio-active since the early 70s.

Cheers, JT
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eightyeightkeys

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #110 on: February 01, 2011, 08:50:17 pm »

I'm glad I stumbled on to this thread because I thought I was the only one with this thought.....also thinking that my ears must finally be going because I cannot hear much difference between 'em all.

The initial trial phase of any plug seems to come with a load of anticipation on my part....maybe hope....that, yes, perhaps this plug will finally offer something different.

EQ plugs are pretty consistent across the board. I can pull up a Cubendo EQ or a TC EQ or a UAD EQ and they will all do the job perfectly well and perfectly boring. I thought that the Sonalksis EQ's were a cut above, but, at the point that I tried it, I had gone off EQ plug-in purchases. Humpff.

Compressor plugs seem to be almost uniformly without any mojo.

The only plugs that I'll purchase any more are reverbs and maybe a delay if it's really something different. The PSP N20 for example. Lots of creative potential there. The QL Spaces is another that seems to be offering something that sets it apart from the pack.
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Dave T.
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Dave Davis

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #111 on: February 02, 2011, 10:38:08 am »

I really like MIOComp, but I'm not sure that qualifies as a "plug", since it runs on +DSP in MIO-land. MH Channelstrip's comp is very similar and something I use pretty freely when I'm working native, or don't have an MIO handy (rare to never)... CS has some modes that are unique to it and not obviously there in MIOcomp, but the knee control in MIOComp covers those functions, with even more flexibility. Still, I could use CS and not wince or whine.

I also like the sound of MasterComp, and sometimes return to Waves Renaissance Comp for specific color. At my old job we had LA2As I used all the time, but in the tracking/mix room I use these days they have UAD versions which sound very good when properly gain-staged (plugs respond differently to poor levels than analog, no matter what the mfg says). I still use their Distressor, LA4 and DBX 160 in tracking and mix sessions for specific colors, but honestly it's as much matter of convenience as sonics - If I want to dig around the plug-list and tweak forever I can get the same sounds or better via plugs. I'm not a snob, just lazy, at least for tracking/mixing, when musicians are in the room to get work done. Wink

I use Ozone 4 at times to do things analog hardware cannot do at all. I like the SSL models from UAD, but again, MH MIOComp sounds more real, maybe just more like an SSL to my ear, at least as far as the color of the compression goes. YMMV, just one MEs take on plug-in comps.

-d-
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aleatoric

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #112 on: February 04, 2011, 01:43:04 am »

FWIW I recently sent two files to a client of mine.  Previously I mastered his last album 100% digitally.  He was extremely happy with the results and only hired me after picking from many samples he received (everyone else had analog gear at the time except me).  On his latest mix he encouraged me to do one version completely digitally (as I had done before) and one version with my recently new analog chain (Sontec MEP-250EX, FCS P3S ME, fed by Mytek's).  Files were sent with a simple v1, v2 file name extensions, I did not tell him which was which as it is irrelevant to the final result.  He and his band ended up choosing the digital version.  The mix did not really require much as it was great and had already hit an analog 2-bus chain.  Very light compression, small EQ changes (within 1dB max) and light limiting on my end.  I'm totally glad I have some analog gear as it really is the ticket on most projects, at the same time you can't shy away from the utter transparency of some high quality plugins making small moves on the right mix.  The proof is in the pudding sometimes as this client and his band (without knowing) preferred the sound of a purely digital master over an analog master in this specific instance (both masters were within 0.1dB RMS).  I think it is important to keep your mind open and use what you have for what is going to ultimately produce the best master.  Plugins are pretty cool sometimes IMHO.  

SafeandSound

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #113 on: February 04, 2011, 04:37:15 pm »

Interesting and yet unsurprising story Aleatoric.

People do have a slight tendency to "bang on" relentlessly about analogue equipment being superior in almost every way (except for processing which is technically impossible).

I find it a bit odd that it is often cited by people who are supposed to have plenty of experience. You have to wonder why.

You cannot substitute ears or good decision making with rack units.


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