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Author Topic: Clone Wars: IP theft (was Sontec thread)  (Read 21917 times)

SafeandSound

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Re: Clone Wars: IP theft (was Sontec thread)
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2011, 10:47:40 am »

I think in the balance of things a Plextor 7xx series CD burner should have more gear "lure" than a Sontec (real or otherwise) in terms of importance, lol.

If someone is listening to the gear list instead of the free preview it is a matter of restructuring priorities imo.
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urm eric

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Re: Clone Wars: IP theft (was Sontec thread)
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2011, 12:17:41 pm »

Matt_G wrote on Sun, 23 January 2011 08:12

Or what if Pultec's were revived & being built again ...


Ah ... http://www.pulsetechniques.com/home.html


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Thomas W. Bethel

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Re: Clone Wars: IP theft (was Sontec thread)
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2011, 12:32:04 pm »

^^^^^^^

Here is what it says on their website

In 1951, spurred by requests from recording professionals, Eugene Shenk designed a program equalizer that is still revered today for its performance and quality.  In a world of disposable audio devices, original Pulse Techniques (Pultec) EQP-1A3 program equalizers currently sell for more than twice their original (adjusted for inflation) selling price.  That is, when you can find one in good, unmodified condition.       
    In mid 2000, when first considering a recreation of the Pultec, Ph.D. electrical engineer Steve Jackson and mastering engineer Dave Collins accepted the fact that there would be significant challenges associated with faithfully recreating the original design.  After years of hard work, their respect for the original designer and component designers has grown stronger than ever.
    Steve and Dave agreed from day one that there would be no compromise or “enhancement” of the original design, regarding components and construction techniques.  Whenever possible, original components from the original suppliers were sourced.  When not possible to source the original component, meticulous electrical, mechanical and in some cases chemical characterization was performed to precisely match the original component with a custom component.  There were numerous opportunities to resort to shortcuts or less expensive components, but they always deferred to the mantra, “Is it the same as the original design?”
    It is with great pride that we present the Pulse Techniques EQP-1A3 Program Equalizer,
a faithful reproduction of the original Pultec design.

------------------------------------------------------

It is NOT the original company as is the case with SONTEC and their clones. It is a new company making an old product. My hats off to Steve and Dave for doing this.
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urm eric

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Re: Clone Wars: IP theft (was Sontec thread)
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2011, 02:14:55 pm »

Thomas W. Bethel wrote on Sun, 23 January 2011 11:32

^^^^^^^

Here is what it says on their website

In 1951, spurred by requests from recording professionals, Eugene Shenk designed a program equalizer that is still revered today for its performance and quality.  In a world of disposable audio devices, original Pulse Techniques (Pultec) EQP-1A3 program equalizers currently sell for more than twice their original (adjusted for inflation) selling price.  That is, when you can find one in good, unmodified condition.       
    In mid 2000, when first considering a recreation of the Pultec, Ph.D. electrical engineer Steve Jackson and mastering engineer Dave Collins accepted the fact that there would be significant challenges associated with faithfully recreating the original design.  After years of hard work, their respect for the original designer and component designers has grown stronger than ever.
    Steve and Dave agreed from day one that there would be no compromise or “enhancement” of the original design, regarding components and construction techniques.  Whenever possible, original components from the original suppliers were sourced.  When not possible to source the original component, meticulous electrical, mechanical and in some cases chemical characterization was performed to precisely match the original component with a custom component.  There were numerous opportunities to resort to shortcuts or less expensive components, but they always deferred to the mantra, “Is it the same as the original design?”
    It is with great pride that we present the Pulse Techniques EQP-1A3 Program Equalizer,
a faithful reproduction of the original Pultec design.

------------------------------------------------------

It is NOT the original company as is the case with SONTEC and their clones. It is a new company making an old product. My hats off to Steve and Dave for doing this.


My point was pretty light-hearted: this product - which I am very keen to try - is not at all new news to Brad's forum.
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Matt_G

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Re: Clone Wars: IP theft (was Sontec thread)
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2011, 09:05:08 pm »

SafeandSound wrote on Mon, 24 January 2011 01:47

I think in the balance of things a Plextor 7xx series CD burner should have more gear "lure" than a Sontec (real or otherwise) in terms of importance, lol.

If someone is listening to the gear list instead of the free preview it is a matter of restructuring priorities imo.




Whether you do a great job on a sample master with a cloned Sontec is irrelevant if you don't have plenty of inquiries. Before you get the opportunity to do a preview for someone, you have to get them in the door first. Whether you like it or not people are impressed when there is a reputable gear list & a professional looking studio.

I don't think a computer, a cloned Sontec & a plextor burner is going to impress too much. What differentiates you from the competition when people are looking at your website for somewhere to master? First impressions do count, there are a lot of superficial people out there.

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Matthew Gray Mastering

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SafeandSound

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Re: Clone Wars: IP theft (was Sontec thread)
« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2011, 10:12:48 am »

Well I would not deem my clients as being superficial firstly, rarely am I even asked what kit I am using, never would be a good rule of thumb. I am sure there are people who decide where to master based on a kit list. And to be fair my studio is rather more well specified than you suggest above.

You are right people do need to come "through the door", gear lists are incidental and a choice of the engineer to be able to do what he feels he needs to.

The choice to invest in further high end kit has numerous months of consideration behind it, it's my next step.

I differentiate myself though pricing, unique equipment choice and also my fortunate engineering career, good experiences, wide experiences. I have chosen to operate at low price point, I have absolutely no doubt that the work I do is worth more than I charge. I base my rate on a standard sound engineer hourly rate for the UK and include the equipment.The low pricing seems to constantly bring work because once a new client realizes how good the work is for the money they come back/tell others and that is how I manage to survive. I am not for a second going to suggest operating a mastering business is a walk in the park because the no. of hours I work a day (and my final income!) tend to suggest otherwise. I honestly believe many people are over charging considerably for their given experience.

However I am surviving and progressing very nicely with the decisions I have made and improving a great deal of music in the process. It's a marathon and not a sprint.

How do you differentiate yourself at your market price point?

I do not know what you charge as I could not see pricing on your site, I guess
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Ben F

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Re: Clone Wars: IP theft (was Sontec thread)
« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2011, 10:17:13 pm »

I think the DIY clones are great for a number of reasons.

Firstly it enables people on a budget to get a top notch piece of gear for a reasonable price. Even if the EQ sounds 90% of a Sontec it's a good deal at around $2800.

Secondly you can exchange Op amps, customise frequency points, add balanced in/outs or do what ever you choose to suit your own sound and work flow.

Thirdly in the process of doing this you learn a great deal about electronics and what sound you like best.

Burgess has designed one of the most musical and sought after EQs in history...it's just very difficult to get one! Why not have a shot at building it yourself?
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Adam Dempsey

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Re: Clone Wars: IP theft (was Sontec thread)
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2011, 02:34:25 am »

Hey Ben I say that's all fine and good – people can hone things all they like and, as you said, it certainly has its benefits in learning. Just don't use others' Trademarks or call it a "clone" when it's simply not (or are we redefining that word?). By virtue of what we do for a living I think a lot of us appreciate such relevant details, and clients may appreciate the whole truth.
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SafeandSound

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Re: Clone Wars: IP theft (was Sontec thread)
« Reply #38 on: February 01, 2011, 12:43:59 pm »

My Xontec EQ is going to have nice jewelled lamps, I have grown to love those jewelled lamps ever since I have had the DCL200.
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zmix

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Re: Clone Wars: IP theft (was Sontec thread)
« Reply #39 on: February 03, 2011, 04:50:13 pm »

bblackwood wrote on Fri, 21 January 2011 12:11


The Pultec is no longer in production - buying a Pultec clone takes no money out of anyone's pocket.


Actually it is, and it does, in fact it hits pretty close to home as far as this forum in concerned...

http://www.pulsetechniques.com/


bblackwood

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Re: Clone Wars: IP theft (was Sontec thread)
« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2011, 06:48:39 pm »

zmix wrote on Thu, 03 February 2011 15:50

bblackwood wrote on Fri, 21 January 2011 12:11


The Pultec is no longer in production - buying a Pultec clone takes no money out of anyone's pocket.


Actually it is, and it does, in fact it hits pretty close to home as far as this forum in concerned...

http://www.pulsetechniques.com/




Understood, but this isn't Pulse Technologies.

It's apparently quite a faithful clone, though.
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Brad Blackwood
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zmix

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Re: Clone Wars: IP theft (was Sontec thread)
« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2011, 07:30:08 pm »

bblackwood wrote on Thu, 03 February 2011 18:48

zmix wrote on Thu, 03 February 2011 15:50

bblackwood wrote on Fri, 21 January 2011 12:11

The Pultec is no longer in production - buying a Pultec clone takes no money out of anyone's pocket.


Actually it is, and it does, in fact it hits pretty close to home as far as this forum in concerned...

http://www.pulsetechniques.com/

Understood, but this isn't Pulse Technologies.

It's apparently quite a faithful clone, though.


Nope, you're correct, it certainly isn't Pulse Technologies (whoever they are)

Instead it's being produced by a company called Pulse Techniques:


http://www.recproaudio.com/diy_pro_audio/diy_files/eqp_1a/eqp-1a_schem.jpg

bblackwood

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Re: Clone Wars: IP theft (was Sontec thread)
« Reply #42 on: February 03, 2011, 08:45:28 pm »

zmix wrote on Thu, 03 February 2011 18:30

Nope, you're correct, it certainly isn't Pulse Technologies (whoever they are)

*smacks forehead*

Mea culpa, had it backwards. I knew when DC and Steve started this they were using a slightly different name, guess they got that worked out. Nice!
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Brad Blackwood
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zmix

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Re: Clone Wars: IP theft (was Sontec thread)
« Reply #43 on: February 03, 2011, 09:20:02 pm »

Matt_G wrote on Sat, 22 January 2011 08:57

What about Waves Q-Cloning a Sontec?  Laughing  


I think that infringes upon Pseudo-Intellectual property....

Joe_Caithness

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Re: Clone Wars: IP theft (was Sontec thread)
« Reply #44 on: February 06, 2011, 06:47:44 pm »

Gold wrote on Fri, 21 January 2011 22:08

bblackwood wrote on Fri, 21 January 2011 12:52


I'd suggest if you wish to do this, the legitimate thing to do is to buy the unit and modify to your heart's content. Otherwise, you're still stealing the designer's IP - the original design...


I said this in the other thread but the circuit was published by the designers in an AES paper in the early 1970's. It is not IP theft to use the circuit. It would be IP theft to copy the PCB.

The Igor boards are not exact copies. Calling it a Sontec is unseemly but the people who build these things are not concerned about an exact copy. I've built them and I could care less whether it's an exact copy. I have more fun tweaking it to my taste. Which is the whole point.

"There is nothing new in audio"



I think this is the post I most agree with, I don't call mine a Sontec, it's not, it's not built by them and therefore isn't, pretty simple.

The EQ I own is based on the famous prodigy pro design but with a lot of customisations, it's fixed stereo for a start, has a Q control on the low shelf and has switch-able "brushstrokes". I guess it used the Prodigy Pro design for the basis of it's sound, but the interfacing is completely down my own customisations, I guess you could say it's a customisation of an adaptation?! In my mind that seems far enough removed, an is no way advertised or talked about with clients as "A Sontec".


PS first post, hey!
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