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[adoucette]

Hello,

Been awhile since my last post, been a little crazy around here!

I've been experimenting with using EQ on my mix bus about half way through a mix. I wanted to know if anyone else is using this formula and if perhaps you had some further pointers or interesting ideas about it. I basically start by getting as balanced of a mix as I can using just volume pan and filter EQ's to remove anything that isn't necessary. Once I am content that I've got a relative balance of instruments I will reach over to the mix buss EQ and and start massaging out a few different ideas. Basically I will just EQ the 2bus until the track has more character, brighter, clearer etc. Once i've done this I find the few fundamental items that need extra processing with come to light. Usually some of the drums if the play is a little inconsistent and then the bass and vocals. Of course it varies dependent on the mix but just as a general flow that's often how it seems to work. I find once I've done this I can set my mix bus compressor to limit some of the overages, add a bit of depth using some FX and the general mix is done. I finish up by automating a bunch of sections and then print it for the day and review at home.

Any sort of destructive things I should be aware of by this method? It seems like a good method to me. Which I know most of you will say is all that counts haha. But i'm curious from a more experience mind than mine if this method is tried and tested and what the end thought was on it.

I usually have been going for the Trident A-range EQ on the mix bus and if I need something a little more versatile I will reach for more of a mastering based parametric. The A-Range has great character to the top end though, beautiful EQ. Mix bus comp is a SSL X-Logic 4000 series bus compressor.

Thanks,

[faganking]

What you've described sounds very much like mastering. At least what mastering 'used' to mean.

[stevieeastend]

Hi,

I never do it. To me, that´s just two different stages that need a complete different approache and mind set.

I remember watching a pretty top engineer doing this and actually thought he made the mix worse by doing this.  

There is a reason for the existence of mastering engineers and the experience needed for this.

You very easily get it wrong and I don´t see any real good reason for EQing the bus.

cheers
St

[Edward Vinatea]

There is no need to use any eq at the 2-buss if you can mix like a pro and have a good monitoring system. Whatever works is true, but doing things backwards seem a little counter-intuitive to me. YMMV.

Regards,

Edward

[Bill Mueller]

adoucette wrote on Mon, 10 January 2011 11:38

Hello, Been awhile since my last post, been a little crazy around here! I've been experimenting with using EQ on my mix bus about half way through a mix. I wanted to know if anyone else is using this formula and if perhaps you had some further pointers or interesting ideas about it. I basically start by getting as balanced of a mix as I can using just volume pan and filter EQ's to remove anything that isn't necessary. Once I am content that I've got a relative balance of instruments I will reach over to the mix buss EQ and and start massaging out a few different ideas. Basically I will just EQ the 2bus until the track has more character, brighter, clearer etc. Once i've done this I find the few fundamental items that need extra processing with come to light. Usually some of the drums if the play is a little inconsistent and then the bass and vocals. Of course it varies dependent on the mix but just as a general flow that's often how it seems to work. I find once I've done this I can set my mix bus compressor to limit some of the overages, add a bit of depth using some FX and the general mix is done. I finish up by automating a bunch of sections and then print it for the day and review at home. Any sort of destructive things I should be aware of by this method? It seems like a good method to me. Which I know most of you will say is all that counts haha. But i'm curious from a more experience mind than mine if this method is tried and tested and what the end thought was on it. I usually have been going for the Trident A-range EQ on the mix bus and if I need something a little more versatile I will reach for more of a mastering based parametric. The A-Range has great character to the top end though, beautiful EQ. Mix bus comp is a SSL X-Logic 4000 series bus compressor. Thanks,

Andre,

Anything you can do to make your mixes independently better is better. If you compare you mixes and expect the mastering engineer to make them brighter, why would you not make them brighter yourself?

I grew up in live broadcast and there are no mastering engineers following you around with a compressor and equalizer fixing up your mixes, only that dumb ass in the production truck with a broadcast limiter with a fifteen second release time that he barely notices during the show. So I got used to making my mixes broadcast ready, by myself.

I read all the time of mastering engineers who just touch up a mix with a .5 db here and a .5db there. They love it! Be one of the guys that give them mixes they don't have to screw with much and you will get praise (and gigs)from them.

However, EQing your mix buss has lots of pitfalls. For example, when you slap on that 10Khz eq to brighten up the drums, when you get home, the vocals will be sibilant, not really a step forward. So make your mixes, use a reference and EQ to taste.

One last thing. DON'T hypercompress your two buss unless you are going to the broadcast truck and it's exactly what you want. This is because you can't undo compression. Just won't happen. And if you do end up going to a real ME, he won't be loving you for that, because his hands are tied.

Best regards,

Bill

[Harland]

I wouldn't use it as a matter of course or formula, particularly halfway through a mix. I don't really understand the reasoning there.

[Nizzle]

Nothing wrong with some EQ on your 2 buss. Nothing at all, provided you are happy with the results. If your ears are telling you something - listen to them.

-t

[Jim Williams]

Nizzle wrote on Mon, 10 January 2011 09:43

If your ears are telling you something - listen to them. -t

They're telling you your mix sucks and throwing an EQ across the buss isn't going to change that.

[grantis]

Jim Williams wrote on Mon, 10 January 2011 11:51

Nizzle wrote on Mon, 10 January 2011 09:43 If your ears are telling you something - listen to them. -t They're telling you your mix sucks and throwing an EQ across the buss isn't going to change that.

Again, nothing wrong with EQ on the mix buss.  This is not one of those things you can just 'blanket' with a comment like 'your mix sucks'.  Use it if you want to.  I use 'em from time to time, and i know plenty of pros who do the same.

[Edward Vinatea]

grantis wrote on Mon, 10 January 2011 13:02

Jim Williams wrote on Mon, 10 January 2011 11:51 Nizzle wrote on Mon, 10 January 2011 09:43 If your ears are telling you something - listen to them. -t They're telling you your mix sucks and throwing an EQ across the buss isn't going to change that. Again, nothing wrong with EQ on the mix buss.  This is not one of those things you can just 'blanket' with a comment like 'your mix sucks'.  Use it if you want to.  I use 'em from time to time, and i know plenty of pros who do the same.

Your logic seems flawed to me. There is no need to correct a group of frequency bands at the 2 buss if you have full control of the mix' individual elements or tracks. When you use Eq to correct anything there, you are processing the entire mix. Thus, if you are leaning towards using Eq always there, it's a telltale sign of a more systemic problem.

IMO/IME

Regards,

Edward

EDIT: That being said, if you are working with mix sub groups or stems, I could see why some equalization and even more compression be necessary but not the 2-buss.

[Waltz Mastering]

Invho,  there's no right or wrong answer,... but if you find yourself doing more than a dB  or so tilt in either direction... there's probably something that could be worked on or fixed in the mix before it reaches a 2 buss eq. ymmv

[grantis]

Waltz Mastering wrote on Mon, 10 January 2011 12:40

Invho,  there's no right or wrong answer,... but if you find yourself doing more than a dB  or so tilt in either direction... there's probably something that could be worked on or fixed in the mix before it reaches the 2 buss eq. ymmv

I would agree.  That's usually what I'm using it for, if at all.  1db or less.  Any more than that starts to sound unbalanced to me.

[Edward Vinatea]

Waltz Mastering wrote on Mon, 10 January 2011 13:40

Invho,  there's no right or wrong answer,... but if you find yourself doing more than a dB  or so tilt in either direction... there's probably something that could be worked on or fixed in the mix before it reaches the 2 buss eq. ymmv

Hi Tom, I don't think the OP meant a little sweetening here. If you read his original post and not mine, you can tell his problem could be bad monitoring.

Regards,

Edward

[mattrussell]

Edward Vinatea wrote on Mon, 10 January 2011 13:19

grantis wrote on Mon, 10 January 2011 13:02 Jim Williams wrote on Mon, 10 January 2011 11:51 Nizzle wrote on Mon, 10 January 2011 09:43 If your ears are telling you something - listen to them. -t They're telling you your mix sucks and throwing an EQ across the buss isn't going to change that. Again, nothing wrong with EQ on the mix buss.  This is not one of those things you can just 'blanket' with a comment like 'your mix sucks'.  Use it if you want to.  I use 'em from time to time, and i know plenty of pros who do the same. Your logic seems flawed to me. There is no need to correct a group of frequency bands at the 2 buss if you have full control of the mix' individual elements. When you use Eq to correct anything there, you are processing the entire mix. Thus, if you are leaning towards using always eq there, it's a telltale sign of a more systemic problem. IMO/IME Regards, Edward EDIT: That being said, if you are working with mix sub groups or stems, I could see why some equalization and even more compression be necessary but not the 2-buss.

certainly not looking to get into a shoot-out and i mean this in a sincere way, but i couldn't disagree more with you edward on this topic.  if a mix sounds good without it and even better with it (which is what i think he's saying) - why would you even consider doing anything else?  you'd seriously go back and start carving all over again?  what's the difference?  i don't care how "easy" the solution is - if it works, why wouldn't you just do it?  don't you do whatever it takes to make the mix suit the song and have it be both convincing and exciting?  i bet you do.

not going to speak for anyone else, but for the record, i don't hesitate to use EQ on my mix bus.  it's been a LONG time since i didn't.  i think just about every pro i've ever worked with and/or talked to at length about mixing does this.  i know very few that don't.  i do this on mix-to-pix work as well.  it sounds good to me.

adoucette, as tom said, use your ears and feel free to do anything that improves the mix and do it without hesitation.  for a long time, i always set up my mix bus treatment part way through the mix.  i still kind of do, but most of what i use on the mix bus is on from the start.

really, it's whatever works.

[Lebre]

Adoucette...

I don't believe there is no right or wrong on this. my 2 cents:

- if you find yourself doing a lot of eq'ing on the 2 bus that reflects positively on the overall mix, maybe you have some issue somewhere else: maybe the room you tracked in? maybe your monitoring? or maybe not maybe is just something you actually want!
- I'm fan of finish it myself as much as you can. I'm following Bill's philosophy here! And If you want that overall compensation, go for it. Or if your client wants it!
- I usually do some degree of EQing on 2bus. but not mental about it. Finished a couple of tracks for more than a couple of albums by slapping a massive passive on the main bus.

ie: If it's some banging rock, I usually mix with a compressor from the ground up.

cheers