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[Les Ismore]

Yeah after we're rich and famous and stuff.....

[Bubba#$%Kron]

A while back I had this chick that i was gonna produce and was recording for free - had a verbal agreement that i'd take 30% of back end.   This was when I was naiive, young, and stupid.   I made her sound like a million bucks, her head gets huge thinking it was HER sounding so great.  We had a little attraction going, and I was thinking with my johnson and not my head.     She even says to me at a party "out of the blue", that she would date me if I lost some weight. She gets mad because I dont act like her obediant little dog, and goes and pays some moron  to record her thinking she's the next big thing. It sounded awful and she got hosed out of a couple grand.  

Now she's begging me to to do it for really good hourly money up front, but I just wont because I know how she really is.

It really was amazing how fast she went from sweetheart to devil women.  After that, I promised to never work with friends unless I set out serious pricing guidelines and have not fallen for the fluttering eyes of a cute singer chick since!!!     Now I just give them a friendly $10 bucks off an hour and use that as a way of keeping the vibe positive.

It really sucks owning a small studio because you do get a lot clients from friends, its still always different.  People really have no class when it comes down to it!!   Its amazing that they just cant be cool about it!!!

cheers

[Extreme Mixing]

mgod wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 10:26

I'm a truly terrible business man, so bear that in mind. If you really are friends, if you really love his work, it sounds like time for friends to sit down and really talk about the situation, and for you to make it clear that you guys are now partners in this work until he pays you off.

I'm more in this camp.  I have been burned before, but not often.  Sometimes it's art and sometimes it's business.  Maybe it's time to step up and be a producer on this one.  It's not always everything it's cracked up to be.  Sometimes it's more.  Like mgod, I'm a terrible business man.  But I'm a great engineer/producer, and that's what I wanted to be when I grow up.

Steve

[mgod]

Well, Steve, I know there are virtues to being a good business man. And its a real shame I haven't figured out what just yet.

[rankus]

Well if we were GOOD business men this would be the LAST business in the world that we would be in !

[nob turner]

you got your money on the previous project because you stopped working on this one. when you finish this and don't have another in progress, how soon will he be likely to pay you for this finished work?

your client/friend probably believes he's going to pay you. that doesn't mean he actually will. we all know people with the best of intentions who don't manage to meet them. perhaps we've even been those people ourselves....

[Barry Hufker]

We get suckered into these situations because we are artists ourselves.  Unfortunately most of us can't make art (the recording) unless someone else makes art (the music).  Wanting to express ourselves creatively we let our artistic self get the better of our business self.  Also unfortunately, once a relationship is formed with someone and the pattern of behavior is set, it is unlikely to change, unless is just deteriorates.

Barry

[dark fader]

.i know it sounds so easy, but :

you have a friendship going on
-> treat it with friendship-rules!

you have a business going on
->treat it with business rules!

make him aware of that DISTINCTION (from the beginning)


i know its a bit late, so you can tell him straight, you mixed
that up a bit, and want the proceed like with every other client, so you can feel confident again.
(tell it like a banker would in short words, he then should agree, then change talk to something important in your both work, later come back and fix the dates of delivery and payment on a piece of paper.)

[stevieeastend]

Hi,

it is crazy to give away finished mixes without any contract & down payment or full payment in advance.

I´ve been there before too, I reckon a lot of others as well. It´s probably a experience a lot of us have to make as the enthusiasm let us forget the business side of this pretty easily.

I learned my lessons well over the years, I never work without contract and/or down payement anymore.

[stevieeastend]

Barry Hufker wrote on Wed, 05 January 2011 08:40

We get suckered into these situations because we are artists ourselves.  Unfortunately most of us can't make art (the recording) unless someone else makes art (the music).  Wanting to express ourselves creatively we let our artistic self get the better of our business self.  Also unfortunately, once a relationship is formed with someone and the pattern of behavior is set, it is unlikely to change, unless is just deteriorates. Barry

Well put, thought about exactly that recently.

[Edward Vinatea]

Barry Hufker wrote on Wed, 05 January 2011 02:40

We get suckered into these situations because we are artists ourselves........Also unfortunately, once a relationship is formed with someone and the pattern of behavior is set, it is unlikely to change, unless is just deteriorates.

I don't want to get too detailed or specific here, but in my experience, the most difficult situations for me have always been dealing with clients who happen to be beautiful female singers/performers.

Edward

[Extreme Mixing]

Edward Vinatea wrote on Wed, 05 January 2011 08:24

Barry Hufker wrote on Wed, 05 January 2011 02:40 We get suckered into these situations because we are artists ourselves........Also unfortunately, once a relationship is formed with someone and the pattern of behavior is set, it is unlikely to change, unless is just deteriorates. I don't want to get too detailed or specific here, but in my experience, the most difficult situations for me have always been dealing with clients who happen to be beautiful female singers/performers. Edward

Sounds like the perfect opportunity to produce.

Steve

[Edward Vinatea]

Extreme Mixing wrote on Wed, 05 January 2011 11:58

Edward Vinatea wrote on Wed, 05 January 2011 08:24 Barry Hufker wrote on Wed, 05 January 2011 02:40 We get suckered into these situations because we are artists ourselves........Also unfortunately, once a relationship is formed with someone and the pattern of behavior is set, it is unlikely to change, unless is just deteriorates. I don't want to get too detailed or specific here, but in my experience, the most difficult situations for me have always been dealing with clients who happen to be beautiful female singers/performers. Edward Sounds like the perfect opportunity to produce. Steve

Maybe. But, I am referring to women's manipulative powers. If they are coming onto you, the precept of running a 'business' might go out the window.

Edward

[Spindrift]

Extreme Mixing wrote on Wed, 05 January 2011 08:58

Sounds like the perfect opportunity to produce. Steve

Or RE-produce.....  

[Bill Mueller]

nob turner wrote on Wed, 05 January 2011 01:46

you got your money on the previous project because you stopped working on this one. when you finish this and don't have another in progress, how soon will he be likely to pay you for this finished work?

This was actually the basis for working with independent distributors back when we had content on plastic discs. You would not get paid for the last album until they wanted the next album.

Bill