Topic: Ideal bass guitar tracking rig. (Read 11746 times)

breathe · « **on:** December 17, 2010, 10:34:00 AM »

I don't have the cash to buy a Manley Vox Box right now, but I was wondering if that unit is the best way to record bass guitar direct, complete with EQ and limiting. It seems like the EQ on the VB is pretty limited. Since I'm happy with my Great River Neve-style preamps, and the built-in DI on those things really is excellent, and I can add some girth to the sound with the TC Culture Vulture, and limit with a Manley ELOP, I guess all I really need now is a tone shaping tool. What about the GR Neve-style EQ? Or the EL Lil FrEQ? The Chandler Germanium Tone Control? Must be under $2k.

Nicholas

marcel · « **Reply #1 on:** December 17, 2010, 01:14:23 PM »

Recently I have been using:

bass > A-Designs REDDI or Radial JDI > API 512 > API 525 > A/D.

With good basses (I tend to reach for either a stock '74 Jazz or a '99 Jazz with Lollar pickups) I don't feel much of a need for EQ beyond the tone controls on the bass.

Little Labs IBP Jr. after 525 if required to work with an amp split, but it's not usually required either.

Sean Eldon Qualls · « **Reply #2 on:** December 17, 2010, 03:07:26 PM »

In an ideal world, the bass guitar goes into the hands of skilled and soulful fingers, and comes out of an amplifier.

Ryan Slowey · « **Reply #3 on:** December 17, 2010, 03:56:09 PM »

Early model SVT or B15.

compasspnt · « **Reply #4 on:** December 17, 2010, 08:55:53 PM »

There's nothing like some girth.

jrmintz · « **Reply #5 on:** December 17, 2010, 10:42:30 PM »

The key is a good instrument. It shouldn't need much of anything. I don't think there is a rig that works for every bass, and I don't think you should assume you're going to need to EQ and compress without hearing a specific instrument. Is this a bass you own?

rankus · « **Reply #6 on:** December 17, 2010, 10:57:46 PM »

compasspnt wrote on Fri, 17 December 2010 17:55

There's nothing like some girth.

That's what she said!

Just before she left me...

Bubba#$%Kron · « **Reply #7 on:** December 17, 2010, 11:09:02 PM »

Shhwing!

Jim Williams · « **Reply #8 on:** December 18, 2010, 11:16:01 AM »

Run a bass through a bunch of crap and it's sure to sound small.
Less is more, more or less.

I shove it into a line amp, a really good one. That's all I need to record with. I avoid all DI solutions as they use destructive gain staging.

If the player isn't a master, I use a Aphex modified 651 comp and then it's on to the converter, another good one, a BurrBrown PCM4222. The entire tracking path is direct coupled, DC to 200k hz, no capacitors, no transformers, no phase shift, no noise, nada, zip, nothing. Everything active is class A.

No EQ, that, if used is saved for mix time. This is the same technique used to record Nate Watts for Stevie Wonder. When they got the 3M digital recorder, the EQ to tape stopped in 1980. Besides, he had active EQ installed in his P-bass if they wanted it.

My PJ koa wood bass is also active. It has a 2 band sweep EQ with a 30 hz~20k hz sweep range. I usually set it flat to record, on stage anything goes.

mgod · « **Reply #9 on:** December 18, 2010, 11:58:18 AM »

No amount of gear and no lack of gear, no quality of gear, no brand or budget of gear, will compensate for bad hands. Good hands will make lousy gear sound solid and present and will make better gear sound far better.

The perfect solution isn't money or technology, its time - years. Meditation would be better than spending for a quick solution.

Silvertone · « **Reply #10 on:** December 19, 2010, 11:35:08 AM »

mgod wrote on Sat, 18 December 2010 10:58

No amount of gear and no lack of gear, no quality of gear, no brand or budget of gear, will compensate for bad hands. Good hands will make lousy gear sound solid and present and will make better gear sound far better.

The perfect solution isn't money or technology, its time - years. Meditation would be better than spending for a quick solution.

You know Dan, I say this all the time. Tony Levin picks up my music man bass and it sounds like him... he hands it back to me and it sounds like me, same rig, same everything.

I discovered this years ago when my bother Frank played Al Dimeola's rig... Al had been warming up and we were talking to him, my brother was asking him something about the action on his Les Paul. Al Hands him the guitar and the next thing I know is now it sounds like my brothers sound, not Al's... the light bulb went off in my head, I was 18 at the time.

In fact I'll say, probably more than any other instrument, it's the hands that define the bass players sound. Technique is just that, technique... it's what make us all unique in what we do.

btw, same goes for mixing. 3 different engineers in the same facility will pull 3 different mixes... that would be due to EAR technique Very Happy

mgod · « **Reply #11 on:** December 19, 2010, 11:52:35 AM »

Silvertone wrote on Sun, 19 December 2010 08:35

Technique is just that, technique... it's what make us all unique in what we do.

Technique = personal technology?

el duderino · « **Reply #12 on:** December 19, 2010, 07:48:22 PM »

if you can't get a good bass di sound through an API 512 you either need a new player or a new bass.

that said, as far amps go, in no particular order

Ampeg SVT
Ampeg B15
Acoustic 360

zakco · « **Reply #13 on:** December 20, 2010, 01:49:09 AM »

el duderino wrote on Sun, 19 December 2010 16:48

if you can't get a good bass di sound through an API 512 you either need a new player or a new bass.

The is true at a most fundamental level, though I gotta say that when I A/B the 512c DI input with the Great River NV DI input, the difference is FAR from subtle. There are times when the API is fantastic and other times, given the instrument and player, it is clearly the wrong choice.

Obviously, having just the 512 would not stop me from making a record, but it might make me work alot harder on the bass tone in some cases...

Z

McAllister · « **Reply #14 on:** December 21, 2010, 07:50:46 PM »

Good player > good bass > Ampeg B15 (DI if you wanna) > decent mic.

Compress, or not, as you see fit. I've had great results with both a LA2A and 1176.

Of course, "good bass" means what is right for the tune; same for my amp of choice. But for what I do. . . .

marcel · « **Reply #15 on:** December 21, 2010, 11:22:51 PM »

zakco wrote on Sun, 19 December 2010 22:49

I gotta say that when I A/B the 512c DI input with the Great River NV DI input, the difference is FAR from subtle

True, but I find I only notice the difference if I deliberately make the comparison.

99% of the time I don't bother, and never wish I had.

MrJoshua · « **Reply #16 on:** December 22, 2010, 02:30:53 PM »

I don't post on these forums very often because I don't have the experience or knowledge to feel like I have much to add, usually. But since I'm nearing two decades of playing bass, I feel like I can add something here.

If you want a great bass track, you want a great bass player and a great bassline. If you don't have a great bass player everything else is going to be an uphill battle. Of course you could say that for any instrument, really. And if the part isn't perfect for the song it won't be a perfect recording regardless of who played it or what gear was used.

After that, it all depends on the song. There are tons of great DI methods, quality microphones and preamps, basses, bass amps, bass cabinets... the list goes on and on. It's going to depend on what sort of music you're recording and what sort of feel you want.

There is no one "ideal" tracking rig, in other words. Or at least, "ideal" varies from song to song. But it sounds like what you have now should be good enough to get quality results, and if you aren't getting the results you want it probably isn't due to the recording chain.

Oh, and one last thing. I'm sure you don't do this, but please don't "quantize" the bass line. I've sat and watched guys slice up a part because it wasn't perfectly aligned with the kick (which they had already sliced up to match to a grid) and you lose everything that makes the part GOOD that way. When did we decide that everything in music was supposed to be time-locked to a rigid beat? What happened to pushing and pulling the tempo as the song required? It sucks out all the emotion.

It's one thing to fix blatant errors (although again, if you have a decent player that should never be necessary) but don't make a robot out of it.

Anyway, my two cents. I'll go back to reading and learning now.

jrmintz · « **Reply #17 on:** December 23, 2010, 05:10:47 PM »

If I can take the liberty of rephrasing what MrJoshua said: If you have a good player with a good instrument playing a good song how you record it doesn't matter much, as long as you don't screw it up.

On that note, happy holidays!

wwittman · « **Reply #18 on:** December 24, 2010, 01:13:00 PM »

Yes

But give me a good original b15 and an re20 and I can record anything and anyone with it.

seedyunderbelly.com · « **Reply #19 on:** December 25, 2010, 09:53:07 PM »

Yeah, B15's are great___ I think Dan's post about it all being hands is the real answer__ and it is was easier to develop the hands if you know that! and easier to record people without them if you know that too In both cases B15's are nifty -- So is using whatever is laying around...

marcel · « **Reply #20 on:** December 25, 2010, 10:09:58 PM »

seedyunderbelly.com wrote on Sat, 25 December 2010 18:53

In both cases B15's are nifty -- So is using whatever is laying around...

Precisely why I have a B-15 'laying around' my place.

Nick Sevilla · « **Reply #21 on:** December 26, 2010, 02:52:32 PM »

Show.
Us.
The.
Music.

Cheers

marcel · « **Reply #22 on:** December 26, 2010, 08:12:45 PM »

You're like the Vulcan Jerry Maguire today.

R/E/P Community

Author Topic: Ideal bass guitar tracking rig. (Read 11746 times)