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Author Topic: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment  (Read 27405 times)

Tomas Danko

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Re: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2010, 06:52:23 am »

sui-city wrote on Thu, 09 December 2010 21:39

Kris,

My apologies. You may be right with the charge.

This may shed some light on it:

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1336291/Wikileaks-Ju  lian-Assanges-2-night-stands-spark-worldwide-hunt.html?ito=f eeds-newsxml

I knew of the Sexual Molestation & Unlawful Coercion.



With our Swedish laws being a bit odd and different from other countries, to begin with he has not yet been charged with rape. Only accused. This discrepancy compared to British law has caused some issues already.

It's not very wise for a person in Assange's position to screw around on his globetrotting, since these actions are historically what brings people down. I guess he's just a man like most men, and he took advantage of his "Jesus" image...

The scenario is apparently that he had consensual sex a couple of times with this woman, and then afterwards he woke up in the middle of the night and "hit it on" again while she was asleep. No violence was involved, in any way. Since she wanted sex earlier that evening and night, he probably thought it to be OK. (She was the one that actively contacted him and tried to step into his life, btw) And it seems it was OK until a few days later, when she found out he had been sexing it on with another woman. When they both found out they weren't planned to become his wife they started the whole carousel. There are SMS and Twitter messages from the women after the rape and molestation dates where they were braggingly and happily mentioning Assange in a positive way. Only several days later, once the women got together, it became rape and so forth.

The initial prosecutor dropped the charges immediately, the second one didn't. There were leaks from the police to the press at this time. Between this, a highly questionable lawyer took charge of the women and their case (whith is really not theirs anymore). This man has said that the women did not know if they had been raped or not, because they are not lawyers. (I kid you not) Assange stayed in Sweden for forty days waiting to be heard a second time, nothing happened until he left the country. (There was no legal cause hindering him to do so, either)

And since a rape accusation in Sweden automatically becomes a public accusation, the woman is out of the picture and the prosecution will own and lead the case even if the woman would take it all back. The lawyer can run such an errand for ages, and get paid while doing so. This in itself is a sad state of affairs that has negative consequences on every serious accusation of rape, but that's Sweden for you. (The former politician and lawyer of the two women, he owns a law firm together with another politician, they actually created this new law and then they started a law firm that specialised in these kind of cases...)

Go figure.

There is an awful lot more circumstances going on, but I'll save you the details. I'm just sharing some of it, I'm not even mentioning Wikileaks and all of that.
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Kris

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Re: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2010, 09:02:59 am »

sui-city wrote on Thu, 09 December 2010 16:39

Kris,

My apologies. You may be right with the charge.

This may shed some light on it:

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1336291/Wikileaks-Ju  lian-Assanges-2-night-stands-spark-worldwide-hunt.html?ito=f eeds-newsxml

I knew of the Sexual Molestation & Unlawful Coercion.




No apology necessary.  The 'facts' and the 'truth' are tough (if not impossible) to discern.  It is interesting to read those articles and also to hear more detail from Tomas.

And speaking of the 'truth' I'd guess that a nice chunk of the wiki leaks are far from it as well.  Lot's of grade school gossip there it seems!
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Nick Sevilla

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Re: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2010, 10:58:32 am »

Last night I dreamt of the following:

I am a revolutionary.

I am fighting against the US.

I started in Costa Rica, and worked my way up the continent.

No one stopped me, but joined in. Even some of the soldiers fighting against me.

When I got to the US territory, there was nothing but desert there. No one around to fight.

Maybe my grandfathers opium dream came to visit me last night...
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MagnetoSound

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Re: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2010, 11:20:42 am »



Paul Cavins wrote on Thu, 09 December 2010 21:43

We all enjoy the fruits of our advanced modern societies





This sort of thing is necessarily written from a privileged perspective, and is simply not true.



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Hallams

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Re: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2010, 05:13:46 pm »

The calls by congressmen and people in positions of power in the USA to have Julian Assange killed are an indictment to their nation and a sad example of the morally corrupt attitude their comments represent. Making a threat to murder is an offense in Australia and as these people are making a threat to murder an Australian citizen they should face extradition orders to face the charge in an Australian court of law.
That Americans see as a legitimate exercise in the protection of its interests, the Murder of citizens from other countries not engaged in legitimate or illegitimate war (another story altogether) is the pits and i'm sure many decent Americans bear the shame of such an attitude with dismay and despair.

Sarah Palin
Whilliam Kristoll
Peter King, the Republican Congressman from New York.
Jeffrey T Kuhner of the NY Times
John Hawkins.
Jonah Goldberg.......many others I'm sure.

.......OK in reality I know extradition is not on the cards however steps are taking place in Australia to put pressure on the Australian Govt to advocate on behalf of Assange in ensuring he is protected by the law, not abused.

An open letter to the Australian Prime Minister

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/41914.html

Open letter: To Julia Gillard, re Julian Assange [signed by Noam Chomsky & Others]
We wrote the letter below because we believe that Julian Assange is entitled to all the protections enshrined in the rule of law – and that the Australian Government has an obligation to ensure he receives them.

The signatures here have been collected in the course of a day-and-a-half, primarily from people in publishing, law and politics. The signatories hold divergent views about WikiLeaks and its operations. But they are united in a determination to see Mr Assange treated fairly.

We know that many others would have liked to sign. But given the urgency of the situation, we though it expedient to publish now rather than collect more names.

If, however, you agree with the sentiments expressed, we encourage you to leave your name in the comments section.

Source: http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/41914.html

Dear Prime Minister,

We note with concern the increasingly violent rhetoric directed towards Julian Assange of WikiLeaks.

“We should treat Mr Assange the same way as other high-value terrorist targets: Kill him,” writes conservative columnist Jeffrey T Kuhner in the Washington Times.

William Kristol, former chief of staff to vice president Dan Quayle, asks, “Why can’t we use our various assets to harass, snatch or neutralize Julian Assange and his collaborators, wherever they are?”

“Why isn’t Julian Assange dead?” writes the prominent US pundit Jonah Goldberg.

“The CIA should have already killed Julian Assange,” says John Hawkins on the Right Wing News site.

Sarah Palin, a likely presidential candidate, compares Assange to an Al Qaeda leader; Rick Santorum, former Pennsylvania senator and potential presidential contender, accuses Assange of “terrorism”.

And so on and so forth.

Such calls cannot be dismissed as bluster. Over the last decade, we have seen the normalisation of extrajudicial measures once unthinkable, from ‘extraordinary rendition’ (kidnapping) to ‘enhanced interrogation’ (torture).

In that context, we now have grave concerns for Mr Assange’s wellbeing.

Irrespective of the political controversies surrounding WikiLeaks, Mr Assange remains entitled to conduct his affairs in safety, and to receive procedural fairness in any legal proceedings against him.

As is well known, Mr Assange is an Australian citizen.

We therefore call upon you to condemn, on behalf of the Australian Government, calls for physical harm to be inflicted upon Mr Assange, and to state publicly that you will ensure Mr Assange receives the rights and protections to which he is entitled, irrespective of whether the unlawful threats against him come from individuals or states.

We urge you to confirm publicly Australia’s commitment to freedom of political communication; to refrain from cancelling Mr Assange's passport, in the absence of clear proof that such a step is warranted; to provide assistance and advocacy to Mr Assange; and do everything in your power to ensure that any legal proceedings taken against him comply fully with the principles of law and procedural fairness.

A statement by you to this effect should not be controversial – it is a simple commitment to democratic principles and the rule of law.

We believe this case represents something of a watershed, with implications that extend beyond Mr Assange and WikiLeaks. In many parts of the globe, death threats routinely silence those who would publish or disseminate controversial material. If these incitements to violence against Mr Assange, a recipient of Amnesty International’s Media Award, are allowed to stand, a disturbing new precedent will have been established in the English-speaking world.

In this crucial time, a strong statement by you and your Government can make an important difference.

We look forward to your response.

Dr Jeff Sparrow, author and editor
Lizzie O’Shea, Social Justice Lawyer, Maurice Blackburn
Professor Noam Chomsky, writer and academic
Antony Loewenstein, journalist and author
Mungo MacCallum, journalist and writer
Professor Peter Singer, author and academic
Adam Bandt, MP
Senator Bob Brown
Senator Scott Ludlam
Julian Burnside QC, barrister
Jeff Lawrence, Secretary, Australian Council of Trade Unions
Professor Raimond Gaita, author and academic
Rob Stary, lawyer
Lieutenant Colonel (ret) Lance Collins, Australian Intelligence Corps, writer
etc,etc,etc

.......see the link for the full list.
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Paul Cavins

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Re: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2010, 08:40:07 pm »

So you are saying that all of the REP, Whatever Works peeps who get to gather over the interwebs don't enjoy the fruits of modern society?

Ok, I bet you were taking the "we" to mean the people of the world. My point would be that the only way the great masses of the world are going to enjoy the fruits of modernity is if they emulate the people who have achieved such a lifestyle. That means Western values, rule of law, etc. I know it isn't the correct thing to write, but it is true.

The poor people all around the world aren't that way because of genetics or heritage, they just have societies that are built around relatively crappy ideas.

(ducking, covering my head)



PC



MagnetoSound wrote on Fri, 10 December 2010 11:20



Paul Cavins wrote on Thu, 09 December 2010 21:43

We all enjoy the fruits of our advanced modern societies





This sort of thing is necessarily written from a privileged perspective, and is simply not true.





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MagnetoSound

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Re: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment
« Reply #36 on: December 10, 2010, 08:52:44 pm »



Yes, I meant the people of the world.



But I could also have meant that not everybody finds all of the 'fruits of modernity' particularly enjoyable.

That kind of thing is highly subjective, after all.


(I am not personally drawn to fast, thirsty cars for example, although I know that many on this forum are and I do not particularly have a problem with that.)



Paul Cavins wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 01:40

The poor people all around the world ... just have societies that are built around relatively crappy ideas.




That assertion is ridiculous. A lot of the poorer countries have been severely disadvantaged by the West and damaged by colonialism throughout modern history.

The playing field is not exactly level.



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Paul Cavins

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Re: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2010, 09:01:29 pm »

Fair enough, but we in the West have the luxury of picking and choosing, or taking or leaving the various fruits of modern society. That is quite a fortunate situation, to even have the choice.

PC


MagnetoSound wrote on Fri, 10 December 2010 20:52




Yes, I meant the people of the world.



But I could also have meant that not everybody finds all of the 'fruits of modernity' particularly enjoyable.

That kind of thing is highly subjective, after all.


(I am not personally drawn to fast, thirsty cars for example, although I know that many on this forum are.)




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MagnetoSound

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Re: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2010, 09:13:31 pm »



Yes, we are fortunate but we are not necessarily better, in any moral sense, because of that.


A lot of that privilege has been built on lies - which, I think, brings us nicely back on topic.



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Music can make me get right up out of my chair and start dancing or it can get me so pumped up I have to walk around the block.
It can also knock me back and make me sit there and cry like a little baby. This shit is as powerful as any drug!!!
- Larry DeVivo

Paul Cavins

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Re: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment
« Reply #39 on: December 10, 2010, 09:17:34 pm »

I'm sorry, I missed the last part of your post.

My assertion is not at all ridiculous.

It is a shite idea that poorer countries are that way because of Western misbehavior. The reason they are disadvantaged is related to why they were so ripe to be colonized back in the the bad old days. They were and are behind in the race of human development. I know it's not all that simple and that it would be tragic for people all over to abandon the whole of their cultures to copy the West. I'm speaking generally.

Look at India now. It was colonized, and got over it (which is nice), but would it be in it's present position without a shot of Western culture?

It is about ideas, not big piles of resources being grabbed.

PC


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sui-city

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Re: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment
« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2010, 09:17:26 am »

http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_reveals_new_insights_o n_poverty.html

Paul Cavins wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 04:17

I'm sorry, I missed the last part of your post.

My assertion is not at all ridiculous.

It is a shite idea that poorer countries are that way because of Western misbehavior. The reason they are disadvantaged is related to why they were so ripe to be colonized back in the the bad old days. They were and are behind in the race of human development. I know it's not all that simple and that it would be tragic for people all over to abandon the whole of their cultures to copy the West. I'm speaking generally.

Look at India now. It was colonized, and got over it (which is nice), but would it be in it's present position without a shot of Western culture?

It is about ideas, not big piles of resources being grabbed.

PC




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Kassonica

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Re: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2010, 09:44:40 am »

Here is a yet to be released rough cut of a documentary about Julian assange and wikileaks.

http://svtplay.se/v/2264028/wikirebels___the_documentary?cb, a1364145,1,f,-1/pb,a1364142,1,f,-1/pl,v,,2264028/sb,p118750, 1,f,-1


For the record I think  Julian Assange is a modern hero and probably the 1st internet hero.

What he is doing is changing the rules and the world......

 
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Gio

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Re: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2010, 11:06:52 am »

Assange is no hero. Just another cyber brat who happened to illegally obtain information that did not belong to him, distribute it, then had his cronies mount cyber terrorist attacks against others for not kissing his ass.

Is any of this stuff he exposed actually "news" to anyone?

Who appointed him "Monitor of the World"?



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Jay Kadis

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Re: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2010, 11:28:16 am »

Gio wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 08:06


Is any of this stuff he exposed actually "news" to anyone?


Yes, to many people it IS news.  It exposes a pattern of duplicity that undermines our political standing in the world.

Nick Sevilla

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Re: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment
« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2010, 12:13:07 pm »

Hallams wrote on Fri, 10 December 2010 14:13

The calls by congressmen and people in positions of power in the USA to have Julian Assange killed are an indictment to their nation and a sad example of the morally corrupt attitude their comments represent.



Nothing new here.

They have been assassinating people all over the world, pretty much since the United States became the United States.

To me, the United States Government has not represented the interests of ALL the U.S. Citizens for a very long time, if ever.

Just like most other "Democratic" countries, where it is almost always the rich who control everything.

Cheers
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