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[jonathan jetter]

Bill_Urick wrote on Mon, 13 December 2010 19:05

jonathan jetter wrote on Mon, 13 December 2010 18:59 Barack Obama - for endorsing the extrajudicial killing of American citizens. Huh? Please elucidate...

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/04/07 /assassinations

[Paul Cavins]

Yes I should stop. I should stop attempting to have reasonable discourse with you.


PC

Samc wrote on Mon, 13 December 2010 19:00

Paul Cavins wrote on Mon, 13 December 2010 23:18 Sam, I can see where the phrase "behind in the race of human development" could be taken as racist, but amidst all of the other stuff I wrote about it all being about ideas and such, I think one doesn't have to bend over backwards in generosity to conclude it is innocent. My version of "the race of human development" is about culture and technology and such, not about DNA or the evolution of the human species. It's not about their evolution as humans, they are just behind in their cultural development... Dude, I think you should stop. Quote: As for Assange, I fear a future where we have all of these tech vigilantes running around with their own agendas. With the advance of technology, it will be possible for a small number of people to cause a lot of disruption and damage. It's already possible for a small group to cause a lot of damage; the US and it's allies invaded Iraq based on the lies of a small powerful group.... Quote: He has no standing to do what he is doing, compounding Manning's crime by zapping all of this data everywhere. What about the NY Times!?!

[Hallams]

While the thread derailment continues on it's boring, mundane meanderings, here is a bit of reading, an  overview from a Britt's perspective.
 
WikiLeaks backlash: The first global cyber war has begun, claim hackers

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/11/wikileaks-backla sh-cyber-war


There has also been a very interesting shift taking place in the Australian media. In The Herald Sun a Melbourne Murdoch owned paper i read a commentary on the Assange/Wickileaks issue where the US response was coming under a fair bit of detailed criticism. Unusual for this conservative tabloid. Can't find a link to the article but will post from the hardcopy when i have time.

[Gio]

Yeah, "hacktivists".

Operation Payback are the same jackwads who we as musicians and artists are at odds with re: illegal downloading.

Are we to allow these anonymous hackers to dictate what's right and what's wrong in the world? F**k them.

 

[Kris]

Samc wrote on Mon, 13 December 2010 18:27

Quote: 2)  Not yet You mean he hasn't even been charged with a crime but he's guilty???

(Trying my hardest not to give you another 'gotcha' moment ...)

Not yet, meaning there are lots of reports from news organizations (I Googled) stating that charges are being seriously considered. (period)

[Samc]

Hallams wrote on Tue, 14 December 2010 01:02

While the thread derailment continues on it's boring, mundane meanderings, here is a bit of reading, an  overview from a Britt's perspective.

My apologies for the part I've played in the boring, mundane derailment of the thread and I promise to only discuss the points that interest, entertain and amuse you from now on....

I'll get onto that link you posted right away.

[Samc]

Gio wrote on Tue, 14 December 2010 01:37

Yeah, "hacktivists". Operation Payback are the same jackwads who we as musicians and artists are at odds with re: illegal downloading.

Stop waving the red herring around dude, most illegal downloading is done by regular people, you don't need to be a hacker to to do that.

[Gio]

Samc wrote on Mon, 13 December 2010 20:51

Gio wrote on Tue, 14 December 2010 01:37 Yeah, "hacktivists". Operation Payback are the same jackwads who we as musicians and artists are at odds with re: illegal downloading. Stop waving the red herring around dude, most illegal downloading is done by regular people, you don't need to be a hacker to to do that.

Quote:

Before WikiLeaks, Operation Payback's initial target was America's recording industry, chosen for its prosecutions of music file downloaders. From those humble origins, Payback's anti-censorship, anti-copyright, freedom of speech manifesto would go viral, last week pitting an amorphous army of online hackers against the US government and some of the biggest corporations in the world.

Right, dude. So you're OK with some amorphous, anonymous entity  disrupting whatever they want, whenever some "member" gets a wild hair on his ass about whatever.

Anonymous cowards. This is not how to effect any positive change.

[Samc]

Kris wrote on Tue, 14 December 2010 01:40

Samc wrote on Mon, 13 December 2010 18:27 Quote: 2)  Not yet You mean he hasn't even been charged with a crime but he's guilty??? (Trying my hardest not to give you another 'gotcha' moment ...) Not yet, meaning there are lots of reports from news organizations (I Googled) stating that charges are being seriously considered. (period)

What part of this makes him guilty, the fact that a lot of news organizations are reporting about it, or the fact that the someone is seriously considering charging him with committing unspecified crimes.  We can't talk about him being guilty when he hasn't even been charged with a crime, it does not matter how seriously 'they' are considering to actually charge him.  

[Bill_Urick]

jonathan jetter wrote on Mon, 13 December 2010 19:08

Bill_Urick wrote on Mon, 13 December 2010 19:05 jonathan jetter wrote on Mon, 13 December 2010 18:59 Barack Obama - for endorsing the extrajudicial killing of American citizens. Huh? Please elucidate...  http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/04/07 /assassinations

Oh. That.

[Kris]

I'm pretty sure I didn't declare him guilty of anything here in this thread Sam.  

I will admit that I think what he has done is wrong (IMO) and just leave it at that.

[jonathan jetter]

Bill_Urick wrote on Mon, 13 December 2010 21:29

jonathan jetter wrote on Mon, 13 December 2010 19:08 Bill_Urick wrote on Mon, 13 December 2010 19:05 jonathan jetter wrote on Mon, 13 December 2010 18:59 Barack Obama - for endorsing the extrajudicial killing of American citizens. Huh? Please elucidate...     http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/04/07 /assassinations Oh. That.

Hi Bill,

serious question here- in the real world, when you are in heated discussion and strongly disagreeing with a group of people whom you mostly respect as decent, intelligent human beings, do you normally choose interact with responses like that?

i have gone out of my way to debate ideas without belittling anyone else.

Jon

[Bill_Urick]

jonathan jetter wrote on Mon, 13 December 2010 22:22

Hi Bill, serious question here- in the real world, when you are in heated discussion and strongly disagreeing with a group of people whom you mostly respect as decent, intelligent human beings, do you normally choose interact with responses like that? i have gone out of my way to debate ideas without belittling anyone else. Jon

Jon-serious answer: I didn't think I was, at present, in a heated discussion. There have been some heated moments but I don't think they involved me. I am deliberately not becoming emotionally involved in this, while I am following it with a great deal of interest.

I really did not know what you were originally referring to and appreciate the clarification.

And yes "a group of people whom you mostly respect as decent, intelligent human beings" is a fair assessment. Well stated.

My response was not at all intended to be belittling. Rather, I chose to communicate my opinion in a spirit of humor, the intention being to pull the tone away from being quite so heated and confrontational. My apologies if you found the response in any way condescending or offensive.

Edited.

[Hallams]

Samc wrote on Tue, 14 December 2010 12:46

Hallams wrote on Tue, 14 December 2010 01:02 While the thread derailment continues on it's boring, mundane meanderings, here is a bit of reading, an  overview from a Britt's perspective. My apologies for the part I've played in the boring, mundane derailment of the thread and I promise to only discuss the points that interest, entertain and amuse you from now on.... I'll get onto that link you posted right away.

Ok ......

[Samc]

Hallams wrote on Tue, 14 December 2010 11:55

Samc wrote on Tue, 14 December 2010 12:46 Hallams wrote on Tue, 14 December 2010 01:02 While the thread derailment continues on it's boring, mundane meanderings, here is a bit of reading, an  overview from a Britt's perspective. My apologies for the part I've played in the boring, mundane derailment of the thread and I promise to only discuss the points that interest, entertain and amuse you from now on.... I'll get onto that link you posted right away. Ok ......

Thanks for seeing it this way man...