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Author Topic: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment  (Read 26238 times)

Tidewater

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Re: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment
« Reply #60 on: December 12, 2010, 01:20:51 pm »

Bill_Urick wrote on Sun, 12 December 2010 06:48

If you guys are gonna start making out, I'm moving to another thread...



If you touch my junk, I'll have you arrested.
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Bill_Urick

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Re: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment
« Reply #61 on: December 12, 2010, 01:24:19 pm »

What's wrong with a little foreplay?
As long as it's in the interest of National Security...
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Good sense is, of all things among men, the most equally distributed; for everyone thinks himself so abundantly provided with it, that those even who are the most difficult to satisfy in everything else, do not usually desire a larger measure of this quality than they already possess.

Tidewater

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Re: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment
« Reply #62 on: December 12, 2010, 01:34:10 pm »

I don't want a government getting to 1st, 2nd.. or 3rd base with me. The government has one thing on it's mind, and we all know what that is.

Homer!

Doh!
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mukul

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Re: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment
« Reply #63 on: December 12, 2010, 01:35:13 pm »

Paul Cavins wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 07:47

I'm sorry, I missed the last part of your post.

My assertion is not at all ridiculous.

It is a shite idea that poorer countries are that way because of Western misbehavior. The reason they are disadvantaged is related to why they were so ripe to be colonized back in the the bad old days. They were and are behind in the race of human development. I know it's not all that simple and that it would be tragic for people all over to abandon the whole of their cultures to copy the West. I'm speaking generally.

Look at India now. It was colonized, and got over it (which is nice), but would it be in it's present position without a shot of Western culture?

It is about ideas, not big piles of resources being grabbed.

PC





I don't know if I should be angry at such a condescending opinion, or sad at self-proclaimed superiority of western culture.

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Mukul M. Mittal
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Bill_Urick

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Re: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment
« Reply #64 on: December 12, 2010, 02:11:49 pm »

The ability of one country to successfully colonize another would require a disparity in technological and military development which should have no bearing on "cultural superiority", whatever that means.

As to why one society might have that advantage over another I would think (just my un-researched opinion) that in the framework being discussed, it would be due to population density vs. resources forcing an acceleration of industrialization.

Did India benefit from an influx of Western technology?
Just an open question. I have no idea and no agenda.
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Good sense is, of all things among men, the most equally distributed; for everyone thinks himself so abundantly provided with it, that those even who are the most difficult to satisfy in everything else, do not usually desire a larger measure of this quality than they already possess.

Samc

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Re: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment
« Reply #65 on: December 12, 2010, 04:53:50 pm »

mukul wrote on Sun, 12 December 2010 18:35

Paul Cavins wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 07:47

I'm sorry, I missed the last part of your post.

My assertion is not at all ridiculous.

It is a shite idea that poorer countries are that way because of Western misbehavior. The reason they are disadvantaged is related to why they were so ripe to be colonized back in the the bad old days. They were and are behind in the race of human development. I know it's not all that simple and that it would be tragic for people all over to abandon the whole of their cultures to copy the West. I'm speaking generally.

Look at India now. It was colonized, and got over it (which is nice), but would it be in it's present position without a shot of Western culture?

It is about ideas, not big piles of resources being grabbed.


I don't know if I should be angry at such a condescending opinion, or sad at self-proclaimed superiority of western culture.


I'm just personally amazed at the level of ignorance and presumption displayed in the above post.  Claiming that people are "behind in the race of human development." is not just condescending, it's racist...

Hey Paul, did the people of India tell you that they "got over" hundred's of years of colonization when their country was raped of it's natural resources?  What facts or study did you use to arrive at the conclusion that India got to where it is because it was colonized rather than in spite of it?
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Sam Clayton

Samc

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Re: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment
« Reply #66 on: December 12, 2010, 04:57:02 pm »

Bill_Urick wrote on Sun, 12 December 2010 19:11


Did India benefit from an influx of Western technology?
Just an open question. I have no idea and no agenda.

This assumes that there was an influx of western technology into India during colonization...
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Sam Clayton

Samc

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Re: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment
« Reply #67 on: December 12, 2010, 05:00:03 pm »

Paul Cavins wrote on Sun, 12 December 2010 17:58

Sam, I DO NOT WANT the gubmint in control of the internet!! How many times do I have to say it?

Assange types are behaving in ways that force the issue about "needing" central powers to control the internet. I don't want that to happen.

The point about people being elected is that they can be unelected.

Can you explain how and why Assange is the villain in this saga, why is he and not the politicians who are at the root of the situation?
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Sam Clayton

Bill_Urick

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Re: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment
« Reply #68 on: December 12, 2010, 05:52:05 pm »

Samc wrote on Sun, 12 December 2010 16:57

Bill_Urick wrote on Sun, 12 December 2010 19:11


Did India benefit from an influx of Western technology?
Just an open question. I have no idea and no agenda.

This assumes that there was an influx of western technology into India during colonization...


No Sam. No assumption at all.
As I said-I have no idea whether or not there was an influx at that time or whether it was of any benefit.

And I'm not implying anything by the question, which I tried to make clear.


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Good sense is, of all things among men, the most equally distributed; for everyone thinks himself so abundantly provided with it, that those even who are the most difficult to satisfy in everything else, do not usually desire a larger measure of this quality than they already possess.

DarinK

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Re: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment
« Reply #69 on: December 12, 2010, 05:55:33 pm »

Paul Cavins wrote on Sun, 12 December 2010 09:58

Sam, I DO NOT WANT the gubmint in control of the internet!! How many times do I have to say it?

Assange types are behaving in ways that force the issue about "needing" central powers to control the internet. I don't want that to happen.




I still don't get the point of a non-government-controlled internet if it can only be used for things that governments approve of.  
That's like saying, "don't use your freedom of speech for anything that might make the government want to restrict your freedom of speech."  It's basically a cry for self-censorship to save the government the trouble of real censorship.  
Freedoms that can't be used for fear of how the government will respond are not freedoms.
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Kassonica

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Re: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment
« Reply #70 on: December 12, 2010, 06:28:53 pm »

Samc wrote on Mon, 13 December 2010 09:00


Can you explain how and why Assange is the villain in this saga, why is he and not the politicians who are at the root of the situation?



Answer that question and we're getting close.


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Samc

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Re: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment
« Reply #71 on: December 12, 2010, 08:20:25 pm »

Bill_Urick wrote on Sun, 12 December 2010 22:52

Samc wrote on Sun, 12 December 2010 16:57

Bill_Urick wrote on Sun, 12 December 2010 19:11


Did India benefit from an influx of Western technology?
Just an open question. I have no idea and no agenda.

This assumes that there was an influx of western technology into India during colonization...


No Sam. No assumption at all.
As I said-I have no idea whether or not there was an influx at that time or whether it was of any benefit.

I'm going to TRY and answer this, albeit in a very general way because the answer is a little more complicated than a simple yes or no.

The aim of colonization (generally speaking) was always very simple, the colonizers used the resources of the colony to enrich themselves.  Any benefit that the colony reaps from this is incidental; modern transportation systems had to be built to take merchandise to the ports for export and hospitals had to be built to maintain a healthy workforce for example but there was no wholesale importation of education and technology into colonies.

Education was on a limited need to know basis, which means that a very small percentage of the population get educated, and even then they only get what's necessary to keep the wheel turning.  The British colonization of India did not bring the advanced tools and education necessary to bring India to where it is today...
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Sam Clayton

mukul

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Re: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment
« Reply #72 on: December 12, 2010, 09:28:24 pm »

Samc wrote on Mon, 13 December 2010 03:23

mukul wrote on Sun, 12 December 2010 18:35

Paul Cavins wrote on Sat, 11 December 2010 07:47

I'm sorry, I missed the last part of your post.

My assertion is not at all ridiculous.

It is a shite idea that poorer countries are that way because of Western misbehavior. The reason they are disadvantaged is related to why they were so ripe to be colonized back in the the bad old days. They were and are behind in the race of human development. I know it's not all that simple and that it would be tragic for people all over to abandon the whole of their cultures to copy the West. I'm speaking generally.

Look at India now. It was colonized, and got over it (which is nice), but would it be in it's present position without a shot of Western culture?

It is about ideas, not big piles of resources being grabbed.


I don't know if I should be angry at such a condescending opinion, or sad at self-proclaimed superiority of western culture.


I'm just personally amazed at the level of ignorance and presumption displayed in the above post.  Claiming that people are "behind in the race of human development." is not just condescending, it's racist...

Hey Paul, did the people of India tell you that they "got over" hundred's of years of colonization when their country was raped of it's natural resources?  What facts or study did you use to arrive at the conclusion that India got to where it is because it was colonized rather than in spite of it?


+1 for exposing the so-called White man's burden in the original post.
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Paul Cavins

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Re: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment
« Reply #73 on: December 13, 2010, 12:51:07 am »

Ha-

My post is not at all racist. The charge of racism is the first refuge of poopy-heads.

"Got over it" refers to the fact that India is advancing quite a lot and it's people are using their talents and hard work to move ahead.

You people need to get past this whole resentment mentality and get on with life. No one is defending what happened centuries ago. We are past that, just like we are past slavery and other past behaviors we see as sins today.

It is a plain fact that different parts of the world have developed at different rates. Is Afghanistan as far along as Sweden? Do they even have a Starbucks?

It is just pure moral narcissism that causes a guilty Westerner to deny such a basic truth.

That the West is further along at this point in time says nothing positive or negative about the people who inhabit it's territories. It happened. That other areas are not as far along says not one damn thing negative about the people there. It is just how things are. It's called history.

Because of modern technology the world is getting smaller and smaller. In historical terms, the rest of the world will "catch up" in a very short time. That is because there are talented, hard working people all over the world who will enhance the world with their great ideas.

Save the racism bilge for someone else. It bores me.

PC
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Samc

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Re: Wickileaks-A Watershed Moment
« Reply #74 on: December 13, 2010, 06:58:01 am »

Paul Cavins wrote on Mon, 13 December 2010 05:51

My post is not at all racist. The charge of racism is the first refuge of poopy-heads.

No, your post was not racist, but claiming that some people are "behind in the race of human development" smacks of racism.  This has been one of the main arguments of racist since the beginning of time... You went as far as to suggest that India is where it is today because of it's colonization by England which gave them "a shot of western culture".  Yes, a shot of (superior) western culture gave them what they needed to progress.


Quote:

You people need to get past this whole resentment mentality and get on with life. No one is defending what happened centuries ago. We are past that, just like we are past slavery and other past behaviors we see as sins today.

"Poopy head", "you people" you really are laying it on Paul.  Maybe if you people had suffered through generations of colonization, slavery and constant racism you would not be in such a hurry to to "get past this whole resentment mentality" (as you call it).  "You people" profited (for the most part) from that little stain in human history, no wonder you want everybody else to just forget about it as if it didn't happen.  And in case you haven't noticed 'we people' are getting on with our lives, the evidence is all around you.

Maybe after you have spent a day in the shoes of 'us people' you will earn the right to tell us how to deal with this tragedy that is only just an annoyance to you...


Quote:

It is a plain fact that different parts of the world have developed at different rates. Is Afghanistan as far along as Sweden? Do they even have a Starbucks?

What is a plain fact is that you keep moving the goal posts; you make statements and when challenged you redefine their meaning.  Glad to know that Starbucks is the yardstick we use to measure 'human development'...


Quote:

Save the racism bilge for someone else. It bores me.

Racism is a constant and seemingly permanent fact of life for some of 'us people', its existence has been the bane of our existence for several hundred years now.  Does it concern you one bit that some of your remarks do more than just bore other people?  Think about that for a second or two.
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Sam Clayton
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