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[Tidewater]

lmao he is whining about privacy. Choke on it, perv!

[Paul Cavins]

Heck yes!  

Assange is all about gaming the system in rogue fasion to achieve his aims.

He's now being played by people using the same tactics. Eat it, you little punk!

He has the audacity to complain about his privacy being violated. Funny as hell.



PC

[Samc]

Paul Cavins wrote on Tue, 21 December 2010 23:39

Heck yes!   Assange is all about gaming the system in rogue fasion to achieve his aims. He's now being played by people using the same tactics. Eat it, you little punk! He has the audacity to complain about his privacy being violated. Funny as hell.

Er...please explain "gaming the system" and while you're at it could you also tell us whose privacy he violated...

Are you in fact comfortable with governments doing everything they can to rig the system in order to put someone in jail for a crime everybody knows he didn't commit out of spite?  Are you really in favor of this type of 'justice'?

[DarinK]

Samc wrote on Tue, 21 December 2010 16:28

Paul Cavins wrote on Tue, 21 December 2010 23:39 Heck yes!   Assange is all about gaming the system in rogue fasion to achieve his aims. He's now being played by people using the same tactics. Eat it, you little punk! He has the audacity to complain about his privacy being violated. Funny as hell. Er...please explain "gaming the system" and while you're at it could you also tell us whose privacy he violated... Are you in fact comfortable with governments doing everything they can to rig the system in order to put someone in jail for a crime everybody knows he didn't commit out of spite?  Are you really in favor of this type of 'justice'?

In addition, it really does matter what one's aims are.  Assange's aim seems to be to inform the people of the world about the things being done by governments & big business.  Those attempting to railroad him have the aim of trying to stop this spread of information.  I see a significant difference there.   As stated in the link I last posted, "When we study what's being revealed rather than get mislead into joining a lynch mob, hell-bent on stringing up those who would enlighten us, we'll do our duty as an informed electorate..."

[Samc]

Tomas Danko wrote on Tue, 21 December 2010 16:46

It's probably good time to start learning telepathy so that we won't get accused of rape in the future...

Then again, Sweden could change the law to something sensible and stop allowing their justice system to be manipulated....just saying.

[Samc]

DarinK wrote on Wed, 22 December 2010 00:35

"When we study what's being revealed rather than get mislead into joining a lynch mob, hell-bent on stringing up those who would enlighten us, we'll do our duty as an informed electorate..."

Intelligence, rational thinking and common sense are overrated concepts...

[Tidewater]

Samc wrote on Tue, 21 December 2010 19:28

Are you in fact comfortable with governments doing everything they can to rig the system in order to put someone in jail for a crime everybody knows he didn't commit out of spite?  Are you really in favor of this type of 'justice'?

Yes! Totally! I love irony above all else!

Mostly, I just like watching people dig.

[Paul Cavins]

"Gaming the system"--In saying that I mean breaking the "rules", or using all means necessary. He facilitated in violating the "privacy" of the State Department of the USA, among other entities. (Thanks to Mr. Manning).

"Rigging the system" is the game that Assange is all about. That's why I laugh at him for lamenting those tactics being used against him.

Do you get it? He is acting outside of the rules, so then those who act against him also act outside the rules.

I know you sympathize with his aims. Can you suspend your feelings about him to get the concept?

He has no expectation of fair play from his adversaries, as he does not believe in fair play.

GET IT?

[Paul Cavins]

DarrinK-

I think in this world that one's form and aims do matter quite a bit.

I celebrate the democratization of information in this modern world, but I think that Assange abuses the situation.

We have to weigh the benefit of having the dealings of our governments broadcast for all to see verses respecting the secret nature of their work.

The US State Department, and many other entities need to have an expectation of secrecy in order to do business with governments all over the world.


To believe otherwise is CHILDISH and NAIVE.

[DarinK]

Paul Cavins wrote on Tue, 21 December 2010 18:13

DarrinK- I think in this world that one's form and aims do matter quite a bit. I celebrate the democratization of information in this modern world, but I think that Assange abuses the situation. We have to weigh the benefit of having the dealings of our governments broadcast for all to see verses respecting the secret nature of their work. The US State Department, and many other entities need to have an expectation of secrecy in order to do business with governments all over the world. To believe otherwise is CHILDISH and NAIVE.

Thanks for the name-calling, Paul.  And SHOUTED, no less.    
As I stated above, I think the governments in question already know all the stuff released, in general if not always in specific detail. If they all work the same way, which I gather you believe, then there are no real surprises there.
 What the governments are angry about is that this information is being released to us little people.  If the electorate is to make proper decisions, then we need to know the truth.  
Or we can just trust that those in authority know best & have our best interests at heart, but that really would be childish & naive, & ignorant, to boot.
Or we can give up hope of improving things.  I've mostly given up, myself, but it is a bit enjoyable watching the rats scramble to hide what they've done, or misdirect the focus to the messenger instead of the messages.
 Based on all the scrambling and anger, I have to conclude that they actually think that this information getting out to the rabble could jeopardize the current governments' power.  I hope so.  
But based on how the U.S. media & corporations are so clearly & completely under the power of government, as proven by the response to Wikileaks, I doubt anything will change.

[DarinK]

Just for the heck of it, here's some of what we've learned thanks to Wikileaks:
 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40773855/ns/us_news-wikileaks_in _security/
 http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/dec/21/wikileaks-cab le-bbc-persian-jamming
 http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/syria-blames-i  srael-for-top-general-s-assassination-wikileaks-cable-reveal s-1.331782
 http://www.sify.com/sports/us-suspected-allen-stanford-s-pon  zi-schemes-long-before-ecb-deal-wikileaks-news-news-kmvnkgfh ijg.html
 http://thecitizen.co.tz/component/content/article/37-tanzani  a-top-news-story/6516-wikileaks-spills-dar-beans-hoseah-reac ts.html
 http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/20/wikileaks-cables -bulgarian-nuclear-project
 http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/south-asia/China-pa  ying-Nepal-to-nab-Tibetan-refugees-WikiLeaks/articleshow/712 8132.cms

That's just a sampling of articles from the last day or two.  Not all are critical of the U.S. or the West.  That last one points out some of the b.s. that China is continuing to pull regarding Tibetan refugees.

For a better sampling day-by-day, check here:   http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/29/wikileaks-embass y-cables-key-points  

[Tomas Danko]

Samc wrote on Wed, 22 December 2010 00:28

Paul Cavins wrote on Tue, 21 December 2010 23:39 Heck yes!   Assange is all about gaming the system in rogue fasion to achieve his aims. He's now being played by people using the same tactics. Eat it, you little punk! He has the audacity to complain about his privacy being violated. Funny as hell. Er...please explain "gaming the system" and while you're at it could you also tell us whose privacy he violated... Are you in fact comfortable with governments doing everything they can to rig the system in order to put someone in jail for a crime everybody knows he didn't commit out of spite?  Are you really in favor of this type of 'justice'?

The issue here is that Julian Assange and his lawyers never got any of the information from the prosecutor, but the same material got leaked from the legal and/or police department to the press.

The reason he never got the information, is that still to this day he has not yet been prosecuted. You can not execute an EAW without this, and in every other country you have to prosecute in order for things to proceed. Except, that is, for in Sweden.

The Geneva convention state that an accused must be read the accusations in his/her own language, and as soon as possible. This still did not happen for several months, in violation of this convention. Meanwhile, the press kept leaking information Julian Assange or his lawyers never got from the prosecutor.

The UK judge accepted the EAW because in their world there surely must exist a prosecution by now, so they were fooled by the Swedish prosecutor Marianne Ny since she never said one didn't exist but also never said that it did exist.

Regardless of what Julian Assange has done or not done, this whole debacle shows a disgusting abuse of the legal system here in Sweden. I'd be pissed as well should I ever get a similar treatment.

FWIW, Wikileaks already did leak their own secret documents a long time ago. I don't think they'd hesitate leaking all legal documents from this case, should it prove to be of interest to the world. Then again, I don't think it's of much interest considering the big picture.


There is a lot more to it regarding the Swedish legal system doing shockingly wrong things with this case (and other similar cases, by the way), but I won't bore you any more at the moment.

[Paul Cavins]

DarrinK-

First of all, I'm sorry that I shouted. That was not necessary.

I'm with you in general about how we the people need to know what is going on in our governments. I just don't think that military and foreign service secrets need to be known.

PC

[Samc]

Paul Cavins wrote on Wed, 22 December 2010 01:57

"Gaming the system"--In saying that I mean breaking the "rules", or using all means necessary. He facilitated in violating the "privacy" of the State Department of the USA, among other entities. (Thanks to Mr. Manning). "Rigging the system" is the game that Assange is all about. That's why I laugh at him for lamenting those tactics being used against him. Do you get it? He is acting outside of the rules, so then those who act against him also act outside the rules. I know you sympathize with his aims. Can you suspend your feelings about him to get the concept? He has no expectation of fair play from his adversaries, as he does not believe in fair play. GET IT?

The one thing I get is that the US and several other governments (with all the resources available to them) have not been able to even charge this man with a single crime or infraction!  Any vaguely intelligent and rational person would come to the reasonable and logical conclusion that this is so because he has not committed a crime or infraction, and yet, here you are declaring him guilty of committing several crimes and breaking all kinds of rules...."He facilitated in violating the "privacy" of the State Department of the USA, among other entities"...This is incredible!!!

Declaring that anyone should not expect fair play from the governments of progressive, democratic countries is ridiculous, the law and constitution of every progressive country that I know, specifically forbid the government from acting outside the law... I am really amazed that someone would not immediately see the danger in allowing the government to behave in this manner.  

[Samc]

Tomas Danko wrote on Wed, 22 December 2010 11:34

Regardless of what Julian Assange has done or not done, this whole debacle shows a disgusting abuse of the legal system here in Sweden. I'd be pissed as well should I ever get a similar treatment.

Thanks for the info, the thing that I really find amazing is that more people are not concerned about this abuse and rigging of the legal system, not just in Sweden but in other countries also.  I consider this to be a truly dangerous precedent which will come back to bite us in the ass one day soon... Truly amazing.