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Author Topic: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet  (Read 21545 times)

Nick Sevilla

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #90 on: December 23, 2010, 02:34:29 am »

Geoff Emerick de Fake wrote on Wed, 22 December 2010 14:02

Nick Sevilla wrote on Wed, 22 December 2010 12:12

 However I had one major artist get remixed, where the multitrack of one song was LOST (don't ask, I have no idea). So that was more a re-master to match the new remixes. It worked, but also took a lot longer to master that one song to match the remixes.

Happy Holidays!!!
That's like asking a cook to make boeuf bourguignon from chili con carne, on the premises that it's almost the same ingredients at the start.



But remember, you are going to serve it to Americans.

I'll duck now.
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bblackwood

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #91 on: December 23, 2010, 07:39:17 am »

compasspnt wrote on Wed, 22 December 2010 12:24

Nick Sevilla wrote on Wed, 22 December 2010 13:12

...I had one major artist get remixed, where the multitrack of one song was LOST...



Was it a remake of The Mammas & Papa's "Make Your Own Kind of Music"?


I got it, Terry - nicely done.
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Brad Blackwood
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compasspnt

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #92 on: December 23, 2010, 08:15:14 am »

bblackwood wrote on Thu, 23 December 2010 07:39

compasspnt wrote on Wed, 22 December 2010 12:24

Nick Sevilla wrote on Wed, 22 December 2010 13:12

...I had one major artist get remixed, where the multitrack of one song was LOST...



Was it a remake of The Mamas & Papa's "Make Your Own Kind of Music"?


I got it, Terry - nicely done.



I knew someone would! (Of course, I got it slightly wrong, it was Mama Cass as solo.)

But I knew it was either that or "You All Everybody."
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Andy Krehm

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #93 on: December 27, 2010, 10:34:21 am »

Other than limiter plug-ins, the only other one I use when needed is the MDW eq.

This I find excellent for roll-offs and when engaged, doesn't seem to affect the sound adversely. It's also helpful that it's programmable so a problem solver for one-pass mastering when one section of a track has too much sub or can be automated to take care of some plosives.

I have a good selection of outboard analog and digital gear but just like the sound and ease of using the MDW eq over the outboard gear for this purpose.

compasspnt

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #94 on: December 27, 2010, 01:19:03 pm »

Andy, what do you use for de-essing?

I don't like to have to de-ess, but if necessary, I find plugins can work very well for that purpose...and I do have several dbx 902s.
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Andy Krehm

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #95 on: December 27, 2010, 01:43:04 pm »

compasspnt wrote on Mon, 27 December 2010 13:19

Andy, what do you use for de-essing?

I don't like to have to de-ess, but if necessary, I find plugins can work very well for that purpose...and I do have several dbx 902s.


I most often use the TC 6000, usually in M mode. Light lifting sometimes works using the Weiss EQ1-DYN and when there's BIG trouble, nothing I have beats the Weiss DS1 MK3 (or MK 2!).

Brad Sarno

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #96 on: December 28, 2010, 01:28:50 am »

I use both plug-ins and real analog processing. Nothing I've found will give the sweet airy top end that an analog (tube especially) EQ can, a Massive Passive in my case. In the pre-analog path I'll often use a Waves Ren De-Esser in the digital if the sibiliance is bugging me. Also, I get TONS of use with the Waves Mastering Linear Phase multiband comp. Really, using that linear MB to control overly dynamic problems early in the path before the analog gear really allows me to use my Vari-Mu more gently and effectively. And sometimes a more precision or surgical digital EQ can help me handle real specific issues that my Massive Passive can't. Then after the analog path has come back in, I'll monitor (and eventually print) with a digital peak limiter:

Flux Pure Limiter for more pristine stuff and fine tweaking. The Flux stuff is real nice to my ears. I demoed their EQ and liked it a lot.

L2 still treats me just fine for stuff that's not too loud. A solid workhorse plug-in.

Event Horizon for loud rap, hip-hop, and loud beat-heavy rock actually set as a peak clipper. Try it! Great tool for high impact aggressive stuff. Less squishy than a limiter. I was surprised to find how incredibly useful this $39 plug-in could be.

But I honestly can't imagine NOT using my analog tube gear as the heart of my mastering path anymore. I've tried all-digital projects and there's just some magic and mojo and organic presence that I can only get with the analog stuff. Maybe I just haven't worked enuf with the really high end digital processing, but analog and tubes are the only way I can roll.

And also, I can't imagine NOT using a digital peak limiter because so much of what I do MUST be at contemporary loudness levels to satisfy the clients. So analog processing and digital peak limiting are quite obviously essential to me.

Brad



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Brad Sarno
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SafeandSound

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #97 on: December 28, 2010, 11:38:42 am »

Please delete. (HNY everyone)
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Catalin Truta

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #98 on: January 24, 2011, 09:03:36 pm »

Interesting that nobody around here seems to be aware of the already famous Nebula.

There's nothing in the "tired" algorithmic plugins world that can touch Nebula, if loaded with the very best mastering eq libraries (things like the 5500 or the Massive Passive).

Everybody who is indeed serious about finding the latest/best in plugin should pay acustica-audio . com a visit.

Geoff Emerick de Fake

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #99 on: January 25, 2011, 07:23:30 am »

Brad Sarno wrote on Tue, 28 December 2010 00:28


But I honestly can't imagine NOT using my analog tube gear as the heart of my mastering path anymore. I've tried all-digital projects and there's just some magic and mojo and organic presence that I can only get with the analog stuff.
As a producer/SE/artist, my take on mastering is that it's the stage where levels/dynamics and spectra are managed, but too late and not pertinent to add distortion (however euphemistically disguised as "warmth", "character" or fairydust.
Quote:

 And also, I can't imagine NOT using a digital peak limiter because so much of what I do MUST be at contemporary loudness levels to satisfy the clients.
100% agreed - in conjunction with a good set of peak and rms meters.
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Laarsø

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #100 on: January 25, 2011, 09:44:28 am »

Geoff Emerick de Fake wrote on Tue, 25 January 2011 06:23

Brad Sarno wrote on Tue, 28 December 2010 00:28


But I honestly can't imagine NOT using my analog tube gear as the heart of my mastering path anymore. I've tried all-digital projects and there's just some magic and mojo and organic presence that I can only get with the analog stuff.
As a producer/SE/artist, my take on mastering is that it's the stage where levels/dynamics and spectra are managed, but too late and not pertinent to add distortion (however euphemistically disguised as "warmth", "character" or fairydust.


How many hit records were mastered with a Pultec?  


Geoff Emerick de Fake wrote on Tue, 25 January 2011 06:23

Brad Sarno wrote on Tue, 28 December 2010 00:28

And also, I can't imagine NOT using a digital peak limiter because so much of what I do MUST be at contemporary loudness levels to satisfy the clients.
100% agreed - in conjunction with a good set of peak and rms meters.



Or a good set of ears and a pair of VU's to get the micro-dynamics nailed.



Laars
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Geoff Emerick de Fake

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #101 on: January 25, 2011, 11:41:21 am »

Laars
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SafeandSound

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #102 on: January 25, 2011, 12:18:59 pm »

The thread might as well be called "Hardware, not convinced yet"

There are jobs for which the outcome is preferable to use digital tools IMO.

You just have to select the right tool for the task at hand.
(and the right digital tools which is a skill in itself and half the battle)

Using analogue is not some kind of panacea for all mix ills.

cheers
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Tomas Danko

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #103 on: January 27, 2011, 07:40:33 am »

Catalin Truta wrote on Tue, 25 January 2011 02:03

Interesting that nobody around here seems to be aware of the already famous Nebula.

There's nothing in the "tired" algorithmic plugins world that can touch Nebula, if loaded with the very best mastering eq libraries (things like the 5500 or the Massive Passive).

Everybody who is indeed serious about finding the latest/best in plugin should pay acustica-audio . com a visit.

As great as it can sound, and I don't question that, one should be aware of the artifacts that comes with any form of convolution using FIR filters.

Quite often engineers are taught what flaws to listen for, and when they disappear they think the new algorithm is better since they don't recognize/hear the new flaws that comes with it. Just because the old bad is gone, doesn't always mean the new is better.

Quantizing in both the time and frequency domains (FFT windows) is something worth looking into, for anyone wanting to get familiar with the flaws in question.

Cheers,

Danko

Ps. FWIW, I use a lot of convolution in my daily work.
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Jerry Tubb

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #104 on: January 28, 2011, 07:55:52 am »

As to the OP, I wouldn't even use the word "yet"...

which implies that plug-in domination is inevitable.

I don't think so.

Hardware rules ; - )

Cheers, JT
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