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Author Topic: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet  (Read 22160 times)

Fenris Wulf

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #75 on: December 09, 2010, 08:41:03 am »

I'm seriously thinking about adapting the clipping circuitry from an Orban broadcast processor, which uses clever techniques to get rid of the IM, to make an analog brickwall limiter.
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Geoff Emerick de Fake

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #76 on: December 09, 2010, 10:33:33 am »

Start by a thorough analysis of the way this clipper is implemented. It works that well because it is well complemented by the limiter. The clipper takes care of the first milliseconds of transients, the rest is controlled by the fast limiter.
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Macc

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #77 on: December 09, 2010, 04:21:12 pm »

Limiters aside, I use DMG EQuality for precision stuff as it sounds very good to me. Sometimes the UAD de-esser gets used, though I keep meaning to go back and try Spitfish again.

Some other stuff gets used here and there when heavy work is required, but that's about it.
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Bob Macciochi

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Table Of Tone

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #78 on: December 16, 2010, 08:20:40 am »

It really depends on so many things.
Obviously the material being worked on.

What signal path I'm using and what ADC I'm using.

If I'm using the ADC on the MADA 2, I'll normally but not always, make up some gain after it using something digital.

If I'm using my olde AD122, I won't use anything after it!

Nothing I put after it makes it sound better than it already does!
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Bonati

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #79 on: December 17, 2010, 12:59:01 pm »

Nick Sevilla wrote on Wed, 08 December 2010 20:24

You can always close your eyes while listening...

I don't like doing that and never thought it was necessary. I like to look straight ahead at the speakers and have processors right in front of me. I work faster and get better results.

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Josh Bonati
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Nick Sevilla

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #80 on: December 17, 2010, 01:15:31 pm »

Fenris Wulf wrote on Thu, 09 December 2010 05:41

I'm seriously thinking about adapting the clipping circuitry from an Orban broadcast processor, which uses clever techniques to get rid of the IM, to make an analog brickwall limiter.


And I am thinking of keeping ALL my transients and dynamic range in my work.

Cheers
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Bonati

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #81 on: December 17, 2010, 03:30:39 pm »

Nick Sevilla wrote on Fri, 17 December 2010 13:15

And I am thinking of keeping ALL my transients and dynamic range in my work.

Applause!
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Josh Bonati
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Geoff Emerick de Fake

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #82 on: December 19, 2010, 11:33:32 am »

Nick Sevilla wrote on Fri, 17 December 2010 12:15

 
And I am thinking of keeping ALL my transients and dynamic range in my work.

Cheers
Not very realistic considering the way music is "consumed" today. Unless you have a very specific outlet for your productions. That's what the guys at IRCAM do; they create "works" that can be played only on a specific system, in a specific room, to a captive public.
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Nick Sevilla

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #83 on: December 19, 2010, 01:38:40 pm »

Geoff Emerick de Fake wrote on Sun, 19 December 2010 08:33

Nick Sevilla wrote on Fri, 17 December 2010 12:15

 
And I am thinking of keeping ALL my transients and dynamic range in my work.

Cheers
Not very realistic considering the way music is "consumed" today. Unless you have a very specific outlet for your productions. That's what the guys at IRCAM do; they create "works" that can be played only on a specific system, in a specific room, to a captive public.



My Romulan genetics likes the term "Captive Public".

Please.. elaborate.

BTW, I do know hat a commercial release needs to be aurally competitive, ie loud as s%^t and without much in the way of transients / dynamic range. I don;t live under a rock.

But, when I am producing a record, I try to do this smashing only at the mix stage.

Why?

1.- The Re-Mix. Ever try to fluff a pancake after it's been smothered with syrup, and half eaten? Impossible.

2.- The Re-Release in 20 years for a new as yet undiscovered delivery medium.

3.- Because I said so.

Cheers
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Geoff Emerick de Fake

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #84 on: December 20, 2010, 12:27:43 pm »

Nick Sevilla wrote on Sun, 19 December 2010 12:38

Geoff Emerick de Fake wrote on Sun, 19 December 2010 08:33

Nick Sevilla wrote on Fri, 17 December 2010 12:15

 
And I am thinking of keeping ALL my transients and dynamic range in my work.

Cheers
Not very realistic considering the way music is "consumed" today. Unless you have a very specific outlet for your productions. That's what the guys at IRCAM do; they create "works" that can be played only on a specific system, in a specific room, to a captive public.



My Romulan genetics likes the term "Captive Public".

Please.. elaborate.

BTW, I do know hat a commercial release needs to be aurally competitive, ie loud as s%^t and without much in the way of transients / dynamic range. I don;t live under a rock.

I'm not at all advocating the "Loudness War", but most people listen to music in conditions where it is impossible to retain the original dynamic range. On average, I listen to music in my car more than anywhere else, and I hate to have to adjust the volume all the time, so I'm quite content with a DR index 12.
Quote:

 But, when I am producing a record, I try to do this smashing only at the mix stage.
I don't think of it as "smashing", my aim is to make the thing more listener-friendly. In addition, I favor dynamic processing while tracking, even knowing that what's been done can't be undone (or can it?). It's an artistic choice; taking almost irrevocable decisions while tracking is a strong incentive for defining the founding concepts. Definitive antidote to "we'll fix it in the mix".
Quote:

 Why?

1.- The Re-Mix. Ever try to fluff a pancake after it's been smothered with syrup, and half eaten? Impossible.
Isn't the remix done off the multitrack?
Quote:

 2.- The Re-Release in 20 years for a new as yet undiscovered delivery medium.
I really doubt anything that's produced today deserves to be re-released later Laughing Seriously, again, this would be done off the multitrack.
Quote:

 3.- Because I said so.
This is a very good and valid reason.
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Glenn Bucci

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #85 on: December 21, 2010, 10:40:54 pm »

I thought I would share my test results with several plug in compressors for mastering on a blues (Stevie Ray) song I recorded, and a smooth jazz song.

1. Waves V Series: Transparent comp that is able to smooth out the hard dynamics in a gentle way making them more even with the rest of the song. Very nice for mastering. I was able to get good results rather quickly.
I preferred 1.5 ratio with meters going up to -2.0db.
Attack fast with release on auto.
I tried harder threshold of up to -6db; it made the dynamics too soft for my tests.

2. Waves SSL comp: Punchy, clean but controlled. Not as smooth as the V comp. I found the attack on 0.3, and 0.1 the comp was too grabby for my taste on both songs. I preferred the attack at 1 mill. Ratio on 2. I like this comp on the blues number but it did nothing for me on the jazz.

3. Waves API 2500 comp: This sounded in between the SSL and V comp. Not as sharp as the SSL, but not as smooth as the V comp. Good control. The fast attack was not as grabby as the SSL. Ratio was at 2 and release on 5. Sounded great on both songs. On the blues number it controlled the transients without getting in the way. When the attack was on 0.3 it was too faster on the kick. 0.1 was better and 1.0 was even better.

4. UAD Fairchild: It sounded like a heavy handed V Series. A little sticky and smoother. Eh, it was ok. People like mastering engineer Massive Mastering advised it takes too much of the low end out.

5. Waves Ren Comp: This offers Eletro or Opto, and smoother and warm options.Warm adds a slight haz to the signal. I preferred the smooth button active. I also preferred opto for mastering. I really have liked this compressor for guitars, and bass, but for mastering, it did not do anything for me.

6. Samplitude's Ammunition compressor: This controlled the dynamics but still allowed the songs to breath. Clean, but controlled. So much controls like side chain, M/S, compressor mix, HP filters, that you can obtain so many different sounds to your signal. Hands down the more powerful plug in compressor I have ever used.

7. Waves Linear mastering compressor. I used this with the threshold controlling each band the together so it worked more like a stereo compressor. I used the opto mastering setting and slided the threshold until the strong dynamics were controlled. I found it kept the same integrity in the music while controlling the hard kicks are bass guitar parts. This is very clean, not adding artifacts and was a good controlled compressor. This compressor is not talked about much on the forums, but I really like it. Especially for those who cannot afford a GML Dynamic Controller or Cranesong ST-8.

I liked the Samplitude Ammunition compressor the best. I might even use two together with each having a different purpose. I might also want to use it with the V Series. The V could gently add a subtle clean smoothness, while Ammunition and control transients, and with its' other controls, but used like an L2 limiter but this is a cleaner more open sounding limiter. Waves Mastering compressor was good to control transients without affecting the music as much. With this being a linear comp, it is very clean

I liked the API on the blues number, but think it would be better on a drum or 2 bus. SSL was good if you want a song to be punchy and forward.

Though some are very useful, I have not found any to take place of something like a Manley Vari Mu, Pend OCl-2, or GML Dynamic Controller.
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Nick Sevilla

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #86 on: December 22, 2010, 01:12:39 pm »

Geoff Emerick de Fake wrote on Mon, 20 December 2010 09:27

Nick Sevilla wrote on Sun, 19 December 2010 12:38

Geoff Emerick de Fake wrote on Sun, 19 December 2010 08:33

Nick Sevilla wrote on Fri, 17 December 2010 12:15

 
And I am thinking of keeping ALL my transients and dynamic range in my work.

Cheers
Not very realistic considering the way music is "consumed" today. Unless you have a very specific outlet for your productions. That's what the guys at IRCAM do; they create "works" that can be played only on a specific system, in a specific room, to a captive public.



My Romulan genetics likes the term "Captive Public".

Please.. elaborate.

BTW, I do know hat a commercial release needs to be aurally competitive, ie loud as s%^t and without much in the way of transients / dynamic range. I don;t live under a rock.

I'm not at all advocating the "Loudness War", but most people listen to music in conditions where it is impossible to retain the original dynamic range. On average, I listen to music in my car more than anywhere else, and I hate to have to adjust the volume all the time, so I'm quite content with a DR index 12.
Quote:

 But, when I am producing a record, I try to do this smashing only at the mix stage.
I don't think of it as "smashing", my aim is to make the thing more listener-friendly. In addition, I favor dynamic processing while tracking, even knowing that what's been done can't be undone (or can it?). It's an artistic choice; taking almost irrevocable decisions while tracking is a strong incentive for defining the founding concepts. Definitive antidote to "we'll fix it in the mix".
Quote:

 Why?

1.- The Re-Mix. Ever try to fluff a pancake after it's been smothered with syrup, and half eaten? Impossible.
Isn't the remix done off the multitrack?
Quote:

 2.- The Re-Release in 20 years for a new as yet undiscovered delivery medium.
I really doubt anything that's produced today deserves to be re-released later Laughing Seriously, again, this would be done off the multitrack.
Quote:

 3.- Because I said so.
This is a very good and valid reason.


Hi,

Cool post.

The "Remix" should be off the multitrack... that is where I keep the dynamic range. The mix should be appropriate to the kind of music.

However I had one major artist get remixed, where the multitrack of one song was LOST (don't ask, I have no idea). So that was more a re-master to match the new remixes. It worked, but also took a lot longer to master that one song to match the remixes.

Happy Holidays!!!
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It is quite possible, captain, that they find us grotesque and ugly and many people fear beings different from themselves.

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compasspnt

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #87 on: December 22, 2010, 01:24:35 pm »

Nick Sevilla wrote on Wed, 22 December 2010 13:12

...I had one major artist get remixed, where the multitrack of one song was LOST...



Was it a remake of The Mammas & Papa's "Make Your Own Kind of Music"?
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Geoff Emerick de Fake

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #88 on: December 22, 2010, 05:02:05 pm »

Nick Sevilla wrote on Wed, 22 December 2010 12:12

 However I had one major artist get remixed, where the multitrack of one song was LOST (don't ask, I have no idea). So that was more a re-master to match the new remixes. It worked, but also took a lot longer to master that one song to match the remixes.

Happy Holidays!!!
That's like asking a cook to make boeuf bourguignon from chili con carne, on the premises that it's almost the same ingredients at the start.
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Nick Sevilla

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #89 on: December 23, 2010, 02:19:09 am »

compasspnt wrote on Wed, 22 December 2010 10:24

Nick Sevilla wrote on Wed, 22 December 2010 13:12

...I had one major artist get remixed, where the multitrack of one song was LOST...



Was it a remake of The Mammas & Papa's "Make Your Own Kind of Music"?



Fortunately, no. At least that one was not me.

It was an Ottmar Liebert record. don't remember which one though.
The multitrack was a Fostex 16 track something or other tape machine.

Cheers
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It is quite possible, captain, that they find us grotesque and ugly and many people fear beings different from themselves.

www.nicksevilla.com
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