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Author Topic: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet  (Read 19988 times)

Noah Mintz

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Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« on: December 01, 2010, 03:28:21 pm »

Hello,

Just a general observation. I've been struggling to use plug-ins. Every so often I use the UAD plugs and the odd time I use a Liquid Mix plug (obv. both hardware dependent). I also use a limiter plug, either the Sonnex, Waves L2 or UAD.

I've been trying some other plugs, BX Digital, SPL and a few others. While they are all great tools, I tend to think they all kind of sound the same. Yes, there are subtle differences in the way they work but the general sound is always the same.

Is this just the way it is? Since they are all digital do they all have the same inherent sound? Am I crazy?

I have a couple dozen pieces of analog hardware and none of them sound alike, so that's what I'm used to.

I really want to start loving plug-ins, I think it's about time, but I just can't get the variation of sound, (a vibe, if you will), I'm looking for.

Any thoughts?


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Noah Mintz Mastering at Lacquer Channel http://www.lacquerchannel.com

compasspnt

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2010, 03:51:36 pm »

You are now a member of a special secret society.

Welcome.
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Noah Mintz

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2010, 04:29:21 pm »

compasspnt wrote on Wed, 01 December 2010 15:51

You are now a member of a special secret society.

Welcome.



Phil Demetro just informed me that this is a 'hot topic' already. Guess I should have done my research before posting. Thought I discovered this all on my own and I was the only one.

In other news. Phil Demetro can also tell you a few things about 'special secret societies'






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Noah Mintz Mastering at Lacquer Channel http://www.lacquerchannel.com

Table Of Tone

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2010, 04:35:55 pm »

Noah Mintz wrote on Wed, 01 December 2010 20:28

Hello,

Just a general observation. I've been struggling to use plug-ins. Every so often I use the UAD plugs and the odd time I use a Liquid Mix plug (obv. both hardware dependent). I also use a limiter plug, either the Sonnex, Waves L2 or UAD.

I've been trying some other plugs, BX Digital, SPL and a few others. While they are all great tools, I tend to think they all kind of sound the same. Yes, there are subtle differences in the way they work but the general sound is always the same.

Is this just the way it is? Since they are all digital do they all have the same inherent sound? Am I crazy?

I have a couple dozen pieces of analog hardware and none of them sound alike, so that's what I'm used to.

I really want to start loving plug-ins, I think it's about time, but I just can't get the variation of sound, (a vibe, if you will), I'm looking for.

Any thoughts?




I know where you're coming from, with regards to plugs.
I feel exactly the same!

I try to play with the plugs as much as possible to get my chops up with em but they don't often end up on the record.

Maybe the odd track here N there.
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dcollins

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2010, 05:33:59 pm »

I have spent a lot (a lot) of time with plugs recently.  Have a separate PC just to run them.

Amount of client material committed to actual production CD's:

Exactly zero.

But I'm optimistic.  Really, I am.  It's just that analog is 70 years old, good sounding outboard digital like 10 and eventually they will get it.

One thing you learn about plug-ins (at least in my experience) is that some are really hilariously bad.  Like how did it ever leave the lab kind of bad.  Some are actually pretty good.  EQ's are in that category.  Compressors need work.........

Most I'd give a letter grade of "Meh."


DC

Gold

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2010, 06:14:36 pm »

Lately I've gotten a few requests for "more distortion". I find it strange but the customer is king. I don't have a HEDD so I've used a few different warm-o-distortorators. They kind of sound like crap but luckily it's just what the doctor ordered. Oddly I can't get the warm-o-distorted analog sound from my analog chain.

I like the Flux Alchemist but since I have the Maselec multiband the only thing I use it for (rarely) is the crest factor control (bitter sweet).
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Paul Gold
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Noah Mintz

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2010, 06:31:34 pm »

Gold wrote on Wed, 01 December 2010 18:14

Lately I've gotten a few requests for "more distortion". I find it strange but the customer is king. I don't have a HEDD so I've used a few different warm-o-distortorators. They kind of sound like crap but luckily it's just what the doctor ordered. Oddly I can't get the warm-o-distorted analog sound from my analog chain.

I like the Flux Alchemist but since I have the Maselec multiband the only thing I use it for (rarely) is the crest factor control (bitter sweet).


I'm quite intrigued by this one: http://www.uaudio.com/products/software/studer-a800/?UAVID=S tuder_A800_Trailer
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Noah Mintz Mastering at Lacquer Channel http://www.lacquerchannel.com

MoreSpaceEcho

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2010, 06:37:41 pm »

sonoris min phase eq and the venerable spitfish see regular use here, but that's about it. occasionally the voxengo gliss eq is useful on unruly bass notes or painful vocals...
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compasspnt

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2010, 07:04:41 pm »

Noah Mintz wrote on Wed, 01 December 2010 18:31

I'm quite intrigued by this one:  http://www.uaudio.com/products/software/studer-a800/?UAVID=S tuder_A800_Trailer



This is now getting out of control...

"The Warm Analog Sound of the World’s Most Popular Multichannel Tape Machine..."

The warm analogue sound of the IC chip?

I thought they were killing music, what?

(Not to put down UA, for plugs, they do pretty good work.)
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Gold

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2010, 07:06:56 pm »

Noah Mintz wrote on Wed, 01 December 2010 18:31


I'm quite intrigued by this one:  http://www.uaudio.com/products/software/studer-a800/?UAVID=S tuder_A800_Trailer


I've never used an A800. I have A80's. I hate the way they sound when overdriven. If it was a 440 I'd be all over it. Those things only sound good when you beat them mercilessly.
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Paul Gold
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Ben F

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2010, 07:14:30 pm »

I find the cycle of hype interesting. Like the most amazing plug-in in invariably the latest...even then, it's generally a recreation of vintage hardware. How many Pultec emulations are there already?

That brings me to my second point...why do plug-in manufacturers design the plug-in with the same user interface as the hardware? Like 2dB steps on an API EQ and you have to move the mouse exactly on the knobs, it's a plug-in you can do anything you want! Seriously chuck a 200Hz on the Pultec EQ and be a bit different. Put in a 'stereo link' on the Massive Passive. I think a Sontec emulation will be next.

I was very impressed with the UAD-1 Massive Passive though. Pity I was over the sound of the Massivo at that point. And I like the included Sequoia plugs.
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William Bowden

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2010, 07:26:19 pm »

I don't think they all sound the same, the waves L3 sounds pretty different to the multiband limiter in Sequoia for eg. I do 95% analogue myself, but sometimes a few plugs come in handy, especially if the client wants it just that bit louder for example and you don't want to drive your chain or converters harder.

My Z sys eq is that a plug-in in a box? Dunno but it's a pretty good problem solver.

The King

Jerry Tubb

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2010, 11:03:10 pm »

dcollins wrote on Wed, 01 December 2010 16:33

I have spent a lot (a lot) of time with plugs recently.


I'm buying a lottery ticket!

JT
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fuse

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2010, 02:55:35 am »

Trying out all plugs is like a lottery. Only a few deliver.

Like dcollins said. They just started developing them and they keep improving every year.
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Wouter Veltmaat
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Patrik T

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Re: Plug-Ins - not convinced yet
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2010, 03:26:22 am »

I have been "impressed" followed by extreme dissapointment too many times in order to bother spending more energy and money in that flavors-of-smear-landscape.

Naturally people using plugs-only will eventually chime in this thread and defend their things. And usually they have not one single piece of quality hardware. But always a lot to say about it.

I guess they sold their OCL-2 when VST-2 came and save the world.


Best Regards
Patrik
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