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Author Topic: Do you mix analog?  (Read 6782 times)

kats

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Re: Do you mix analog?
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2010, 09:26:29 am »

compasspnt wrote on Fri, 03 December 2010 08:22

Best thing in Tony's photos...NO HEADPHONES!



Less headaches, better results. What I do actually is run the live mics into the console and use the monitor sends to go back out to the wedges for vocals, or eKeys. Actually I have a pzm under the grand and I do the same with that as well. This way I have the whole performance recorded, even if we're going to redo vocals or something

As you know I'm only on my third year in this studio, but the as my balls grow bigger with set ups,  you begin to realize how little bleed adversely affects anything ( actually how little bleed there really is). Just a little extra consideration on mic placements and patterns and your golden.

There is nothing to be afraid of the dark.

 
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Tony K.
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Entertainment is a bore, communication is where it's at! - Brian Jones 1967

Wireline

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Re: Do you mix analog?
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2010, 10:13:28 am »

Quote:

you begin to realize how little bleed adversely affects anything


The only time I've found it troubling is when dealing with 'producers' who don't know any better - the ones who want PERFECT isolation on every mic/source...

You, the ones who want an individual mic on each member of a 30 piece chorale (and a separate cue mix for each one as well - but that's a different thread)

Question - how did you keep the Hiwatt out of everything else?  You mean to tell me you actually had players that understood the volume knob worked BOTH ways?

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Ken Morgan
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kats

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Re: Do you mix analog?
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2010, 09:08:08 pm »

We had a THD hotplate down one or two notches on the hiwatt... IIRC, that or it was a master volume...

I don't remember using it too much, mostly the tweed or an 18w Marshall. It's really not an issue... I know David Sardy was working with these guys and he doesn't even bother with the gobo's ( I don't blame him, it's just as good without).

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Tony K.
http://empirerecording.ca

Entertainment is a bore, communication is where it's at! - Brian Jones 1967

Nick Sevilla

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Re: Do you mix analog?
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2010, 09:13:50 pm »

A seminar I attended at AES :

Speaker :

"To all you digital guys here, I just want to reiterate that at this level, IT'S ALL ANALOG!"

He was referencing the differences between hardware devices and how they have to either work or not work.

The "digital" part of his presentation was just different in that the signal being carried was of a Logic nature, ie full on and full off, as in a square wave, which is actually a lot harder to keep control of in the analogue domain.

And by analogue domain I mean the electrical circuits which carry the digital signal from point a to point b.

That part... is analog. electrical signals going through copper wire and other components from one place to the next.

This apparently is the hard part for these digital designers, including the software guys, who are still trying to figure out how exactly to emulate this analog electrical signal path in a software only medium.

Cheers
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cgc

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Re: Do you mix analog?
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2010, 12:33:52 am »

Nick

You could also say that analog is just very primitive digital too.  Analog circuits are applying mathematics to the signal (gain is multiplication and summing is addition) and many behave as simple logic circuits (compressors and gates for example).  A tape machine is a linear hard disk and so on.

I disagree that the challenge is to bring modeling of analog into the computer since the computer does math in a way that analog can never do.  Although it seems that the fickle consumer really wants to undo all of the aspects of digital in order to make it more 'analog', but it's a fool's errand though.  Use digital for what it is good at, namely infinitely repeatable precise math, and use analog for what it is good at - non-linearity and unpredictability.  
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kats

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Re: Do you mix analog?
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2010, 06:37:06 am »

cgc wrote on Sat, 04 December 2010 23:33

 and use analog for what it is good at - non-linearity and unpredictability.  


What's so good about that? Surely there must be other attributes...
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Tony K.
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cgc

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Re: Do you mix analog?
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2010, 04:03:24 pm »

kats wrote on Sun, 05 December 2010 05:37

cgc wrote on Sat, 04 December 2010 23:33

 and use analog for what it is good at - non-linearity and unpredictability.  


What's so good about that? Surely there must be other attributes...



From an information theory standpoint it's not good at all and the main reason digital was invented.

From an electronic point of view it is what gives analog its wide range of sound.  Circuits for gain or filtering may have the same basic design but the choice of components, values, etc can drastically affect the output.  An API mixer is going to sum differently than an SSL just like the Trident 80EQ sounds different than a Mackie 8 buss.

In digital there are really only a set of standard algorithms to perform audio processing.  Mixing is just straight multiplication and addition, which is why mixing the same sources in any DAW gives the same result (the files will null).  Same with EQ and filtering - a biquad with the same coefficients is going to sound exactly the same in any application.  
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mell

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Re: Do you mix analog?
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2011, 05:12:42 pm »

a never ending annalogue vs digital debate, i realy doubt that digital was invented cause of non-linearity in annalogue , where do people get these ideas from?
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mgod

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Re: Do you mix analog?
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2011, 03:04:28 am »

cgc wrote on Sat, 04 December 2010 21:33

 Use digital for what it is good at, namely infinitely repeatable precise math,  

Except of course for when errors get into the mix or your drives won't work. My confidence in the infinite nature of them digits is not so high.
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MagnetoSound

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Re: Do you mix analog?
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2011, 09:50:05 am »

mell wrote on Sat, 15 January 2011 22:12

a never ending annalogue vs digital debate, i realy doubt that digital was invented cause of non-linearity in annalogue , where do people get these ideas from?




Why was digital invented?


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mgod

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Re: Do you mix analog?
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2011, 10:46:53 am »

To sell more stuff, like everything else.
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mell

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Re: Do you mix analog?
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2011, 02:11:33 pm »

the rise of digital technology was the next nactural step in the evolution of minituarisation/automation imo, wether we talk about a cellphone, TV, or a recording console , annalogue didnt need to be non-linear for digital to be created, it would have been developed anyway, dont you think?

but tbh , i realy like my non-linear SM69-tube mic into my nonlinear CLASS-A pre-amplifier summed in my nonlinear summing box played back through my non-linear CLASS-A amplifier...into my non-linear ears Razz
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Jim Williams

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Re: Do you mix analog?
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2011, 10:11:48 am »

kats wrote on Sun, 05 December 2010 03:37

cgc wrote on Sat, 04 December 2010 23:33

 and use analog for what it is good at - non-linearity and unpredictability.  


What's so good about that? Surely there must be other attributes...



Yep, like linearity and predictability. It's nice to know when I power up the console I won't ever see error warnings, blue screens, a Microsoft logo nor any crashes, ever. I won't have driver nor interface problems, clocking issues, software compatibility issues, and all those other headaches.

As to linearity, the analog console measures at the residuals of the Audio Precision test set so I really don't know how linear it really is, the test gear isn't mature enough to tell me the entire story.

Then you add the 2 hz ~ 200k hz bandwidth, no phase shift, noise well below the 16 bit limits and one begins to realize the attributes offer everything good the digital mix has to offer without any of the shortcomings. The signal is not limited by the resolution nor switching speed of the converters, latency, bandwidth limiting, etc.

It is a real signal, not a digital approximation. It's not a slice of the event, it IS the event.
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Jim Williams
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