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Author Topic: I just sold a summing mixer and this is what the buyer replies with!  (Read 3510 times)

Bubba#$%Kron

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Sorry for the stupid thread, anyone have any ideas.  Its a  folcrom type with no buttons on the front, just straight passive under a name of "Blackwatch Sound".  I would like to get him to keep it instead of a refund, its only $200 but still dont want to have to have it returned.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Bryan

"Bryan-


Something is wrong with the BlackWatchSound summing mixer.  Sad  Have spent many hours trying to get it to cooperate.  There was a nut and washer belonging to one of the DB25 connectors lying inside the chassis when I took it apart, I re-attached them.  No other obvious damage that I can see.  I've tried multiple preamps and DB25 cables to make sure I wasn't blaming the summing mixer for the horrible sound unfairly.  Basically there is more electrical hum than music coming from the XLR jacks of the summing mixer.  Such a faint signal of music actually that a preamp has to be CRANKED to the max to get half the volume you'd need.  Almost the level of like radio interference, not music.  I've double checked the signal going to each lead in the DB25 cables with headphones and through speakers, the signal x16 is strong and beautiful.  But the signal coming out of the summing mixer is awful, tiny, no low end, and overpowered by a huge electrical buzz, like 60hz.  Any ideas what could be wrong?  

Taylor"
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"When we make music we don't do it in order to reach a certain point, such as the end of the composition. If that were the purpose of music then obviously the fastest players would be the best. Also, when we are dancing we are not aiming to arrive at a particular place on the floor as in a journey. When we dance, the journey itself is the point, as when we play music the playing itself is the point."  -Alan Watts

Randyman...

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Re: I just sold a summing mixer and this is what the buyer replies with!
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2010, 09:58:09 PM »

Is the summing box wired for Tascam DB25 pinout?  Is he using Tascam type cables?  What is feeding the summing box (I saw "x16" mentioned in his reply - so probably a DA16x?).

If there was stuff rattling around on the inside of the box and I couldn't get it working (assuming I was not at fault) I'd probably ask for a refund as well.  You tested it before boxing it up and shipping it out - correct?
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Randy Visentine
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Bubba#$%Kron

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Re: I just sold a summing mixer and this is what the buyer replies with!
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2010, 10:10:35 PM »

Randyman... wrote on Wed, 17 November 2010 18:58


If there was stuff rattling around on the inside of the box and I couldn't get it working (assuming I was not at fault) I'd probably ask for a refund as well.  You tested it before boxing it up and shipping it out - correct?


Its just 2 db25's hooked up to xlr's with resitors.   Can resistors be burnt out if some one applied phantom power?  I told him I would have no problem returning it, just dont wanna go there if I dont have to.
Thanks, Bryan
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"When we make music we don't do it in order to reach a certain point, such as the end of the composition. If that were the purpose of music then obviously the fastest players would be the best. Also, when we are dancing we are not aiming to arrive at a particular place on the floor as in a journey. When we dance, the journey itself is the point, as when we play music the playing itself is the point."  -Alan Watts

Randyman...

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Re: I just sold a summing mixer and this is what the buyer replies with!
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2010, 10:23:41 PM »

Was it ever confirmed to be working before you sold it?

I don't think Phantom has enough current to fry a 1/4watt resistor - but stranger things could have been presented to the summing box if musicians are involved  Laughing

If you know it works with Tascam DB25's - then I'd guess it has to be some sort of wiring issue on the buyer's side.  Possibly a shield swapped with a hot leg?

For reference I built something similar w/o the rack box with only 8 channels (expandable to 16 or a 4x2 submix into a 5x2 submix).  The summing resistors are housed inside the DB25 shell.  I used 10K's on the input legs and I think I used 220's (or so) across the XLR Outs.  No shields were hooked up (only hot/cold legs - the XLR's shield terminates at the Preamp input) - it's quiet as a mouse and only cost $15 to DIY.

If your box is malfunctioning - repairing it should be cake.  But unless unusually hot signals were fed into it - this is likely a cabling issue from what I gather...
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Randy Visentine
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Re: I just sold a summing mixer and this is what the buyer replies with!
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2010, 10:35:43 PM »

My guess is miswiring or impedance mismatch. Or both. You actually have to have half a clue to interface a passive unit properly. Do you know the impedance of the bus?
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Paul Gold
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Bubba#$%Kron

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Re: I just sold a summing mixer and this is what the buyer replies with!
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2010, 12:23:24 AM »

Thats what I'm thinking.  I told him to make sure they are not aes cables.  He was trying a digidesign snake which I said is the wrong one, he said he also got some cables from Mercenary and said the person from there said he was ordering the right stuff.  Even if its a aes snake it should still sound somewhat normal, no??  Maybe the wiring in his db25 cables are cancelling each other out or something.     If someone used a line level device instead of mic pre for make up gain would they experience these type of issues??  still waiting for him to get back to me, you guys rock. Here is the unit-

 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=19045 9040821&ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT#ht_500wt_901

cheers, Bryan

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"When we make music we don't do it in order to reach a certain point, such as the end of the composition. If that were the purpose of music then obviously the fastest players would be the best. Also, when we are dancing we are not aiming to arrive at a particular place on the floor as in a journey. When we dance, the journey itself is the point, as when we play music the playing itself is the point."  -Alan Watts

meverylame

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Re: I just sold a summing mixer and this is what the buyer replies with!
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2010, 01:32:41 AM »

Looks like the connectors are proprietary as there are 2 db25 connectors labeled left and right, which to me would mean that left would want to see the odd outputs and the right would see the evens. No telling without the unit, but that would be WAAAYY custom.
It pays to use "AS-IS".
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Cheers!
Jason Kingsland

http://www.jasonruinsrecords.com

Fletcher

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Re: I just sold a summing mixer and this is what the buyer replies with!
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2010, 02:43:24 AM »

Bubba Kron wrote on Wed, 17 November 2010 21:19

Basically there is more electrical hum than music coming from the XLR jacks of the summing mixer.  Such a faint signal of music actually that a preamp has to be CRANKED to the max to get half the volume you'd need.  Almost the level of like radio interference, not music.  I've double checked the signal going to each lead in the DB25 cables with headphones and through speakers, the signal x16 is strong and beautiful.  But the signal coming out of the summing mixer is awful, tiny, no low end, and overpowered by a huge electrical buzz, like 60hz.  Any ideas what could be wrong?


These are the classic symptoms of a wiring problem -- now it could be that the DB-25's [which are just connectors - NOT a wiring standard] could be wired to something other than the TASCAM standard for those connectors, or there may be a "cold solder joint" involved somewhere, but it is definitely a wiring problem.

I'd recommend you get it back, or checked out where the customer is [though for $200 it may not be worth it to pay someone to check the thing out].  Also, if you want to avoid nuts coming loose in transit - investigate "lock washers" &/or "Loctite" - both will help keep the nuts where they need to be.

Peace.
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.  
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

MI

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Re: I just sold a summing mixer and this is what the buyer replies with!
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2010, 01:23:17 PM »

Were you using it before?

Why not just give him the cables / DB25 connectors you were using?

Also, is it wired for balanced +4dBu or unbalanced -10dBV?

MI
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Gold

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Re: I just sold a summing mixer and this is what the buyer replies with!
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2010, 06:22:49 PM »

MI wrote on Thu, 18 November 2010 13:23


Also, is it wired for balanced +4dBu or unbalanced -10dBV?




That's where you could end up with an impedance mismatch. There's no easy fix for that.
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Paul Gold
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Bubba#$%Kron

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Re: I just sold a summing mixer and this is what the buyer replies with!
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2010, 12:07:23 AM »

Hes gonna have a tech out there look at it.  After I pointed him to this thread he realized I was not trying to screw him.  $30 repair is a lot better than Re-list and more ups guys!!! Thanks again, you guys rock!!!!

Bryan
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"When we make music we don't do it in order to reach a certain point, such as the end of the composition. If that were the purpose of music then obviously the fastest players would be the best. Also, when we are dancing we are not aiming to arrive at a particular place on the floor as in a journey. When we dance, the journey itself is the point, as when we play music the playing itself is the point."  -Alan Watts
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