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Author Topic: [Neve 33609/J discrete] EXT/INT.  (Read 5459 times)

2000F

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[Neve 33609/J discrete] EXT/INT.
« on: October 14, 2010, 03:31:20 am »

Sorry for the many questions today, hope it's cool. I've been looking through some of the units at the studio, and though I love the Neve 33609/J discrete, it left me wondering what the EXT/IN switch does. My local tech has spoken to the guys at Neve, as I'd like to have a cable made for sidechain input. Yet, the Neve crew hasn't got a clue about it unfortunately.
They have send us a a diagram and we found the technical handbook, please see diagram attached.
Yet, to be honest I can't figure out if it does support a sidechain input? It seems that the EXT mode makes possible to control some of the functions externally.

Also, as the MONO/STEREO and BY PASS/IN are relay switches, when the unit is switched off, it seems to forget the positions they where left in. I.e. doing a mixdown, returning the morning after to do the final mix, it is crucial to remember to adjust the MONO/STEREO and the BY PASS/IN switches to their settings as used on the mix.
Is it possible to change this rather silly fault of the unit?
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ssltech

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Re: [Neve 33609/J discrete] EXT/IN
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2010, 06:55:28 am »

2000F wrote

Is it possible to change this rather silly fault of the unit?


Yes, but it won't be cheap.

the buttons would have to be replaced with latching buttons, and the electronic 'flip-flop' toggling would need to be disabled.

Keith
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MDM (maxdimario) wrote on Fri, 16 November 2007 21:36

I have the feeling that I have more experience in my little finger than you do in your whole body about audio electronics..

Fletcher

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Re: [Neve 33609/J discrete] EXT/IN
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2010, 08:15:13 am »

IIRC the "Ext In" switch is for the sidechain / key function of the unit... as far as the relays not returning to where you left them, as Keith mentioned you would have to add memory to the unit which is neither inexpensive or in my opinion, practical.

What I would suggest would be to leave the unit turned on when in use -- and by "in use" I mean for the entire time you are working on what ever it is you're working.  Those things take  a good 1/2 hour to an hour to get nice and warm and happy... once they're there, leave them on until [and unless] there is a multi-day break in the action [though I still left all my gear on unless it wasn't going to be used for a week or more... there were some units like the Pendulum Audio "Quartet II" that could take several hours to fully stabilize so it was just better to leave it on 24/7/365.

Peace.
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.  
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

2000F

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Re: [Neve 33609/J discrete] EXT/IN
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2010, 06:15:08 pm »

Safe, Keith. Give thanks for the info. I thought it would be something like you suggest. And that might be a bit too much to spend on it (while also ruining the frontplate). Smile
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2000F

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Re: [Neve 33609/J discrete] EXT/IN
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2010, 06:17:46 pm »

Hi Fletcher,

thanks for your reply. Well, to be honest I thought too it featured a key/sidechain input. But no one at Neve knows unfortunately.

Though the more I think and read the little information available it seems that EXT is a function so it can be controlled from afar. I.e. from a remote desk or something. Does it make sense? I  haven't heard of such before though, but maybe for outside broadcasts/OB vans?
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Dominick

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Re: [Neve 33609/J discrete] EXT/IN
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2010, 10:31:12 pm »

It does not have a key/sidechain input.  
You can link sidechains of multiple units for multichannel work.
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Dominick Costanzo

Fletcher

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Re: [Neve 33609/J discrete] EXT/INT.
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2010, 03:16:09 am »

Between my response and Dominik's - I'd believe Dominik!!  My use / understanding of 33609's past the original version is limited... though I have seen a few "metal knobs" with "side chain" capability, but in thinking about it, I'm kinda sure they were modified to have that feature after original construction.

Peace.
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.  
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

Geoff_T

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Re: [Neve 33609/J discrete] EXT/INT.
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2010, 11:45:17 am »

Hi

In my humble opinion, AMS-Neve and Neve before them should have left it like it was. They took a nice product and, because the Japanese market was the biggest purchasers of the units, pandered to their requirements, I believe, and over complicated the unit with big, ugly switches (that needed control logic and relays... in place of a $1.50 toggle switch) and messed with the insides... dumping the Marinair/St Ives transformers for Willesden/Belclere cheaper ones.

Then, to add insult to injury, for a short time they added the word "Classic" to the silk screen artwork...

Excuse me?

So we finish up with threads like this re features that were never considered necessary on the originals.

The originals just sent a linking dc signal to the rear 9 pin D sub. You could use it or ignore it if you didn't have other units to link to it.

The best thing they could do, considering they make reissues of the 1073, 1084 and 1081, is to re-issue the 33609 as it was originally configured with just the updated power supply that I begged them to fit when I was at Neve.

They said it would change the sound... I insisted for better.

Then I leave and they changed it...

Rolling Eyes

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Geoff Tanner
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compasspnt

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Re: [Neve 33609/J discrete] EXT/INT.
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2010, 12:30:58 pm »

I was wondering about this, because my (older) 33609 does have toggle switches for bypass etc.

Now I see that I am fortunate not to have an "upgraded" model.
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ssltech

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Re: [Neve 33609/J discrete] EXT/INT.
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2010, 01:28:58 pm »

Protect us Lord, from 'improvements'.
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MDM (maxdimario) wrote on Fri, 16 November 2007 21:36

I have the feeling that I have more experience in my little finger than you do in your whole body about audio electronics..

tom eaton

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Re: [Neve 33609/J discrete] EXT/INT.
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2010, 07:33:13 pm »

Can I get a "Harman"?  Masters of "improvement"!

2000F

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Re: [Neve 33609/J discrete] EXT/INT.
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2010, 02:05:59 pm »

I reckon you're quite right on some of your points, Geoff.
Years ago I used the first model 33609 with toggle switches and it did not have an EXT/INT switch (but rather a Stereo/Quad toggle switch).
So, the EXT/INT is for remote controlling the unit (and it does not feature a key/sidechain input)? Smile
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Podgorny

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Re: [Neve 33609/J discrete] EXT/INT.
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2010, 03:52:48 pm »

What else changed between the metal-knob and the new version? They definitely don't sound the same.  Is it just the transformers?
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"Nobody cares what the impedance is; all they care about is when you can walk into the room, set up a mic, turn the knobs, hit record, and make everybody go 'wow.'"

Geoff_T

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Re: [Neve 33609/J discrete] EXT/INT.
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2010, 10:42:32 pm »

Podgorny wrote on Mon, 18 October 2010 12:52

What else changed between the metal-knob and the new version? They definitely don't sound the same.  Is it just the transformers?


Hi

The first units used the motherboard off a 33314, the power supply from a 1777, and the switch/lamp/fuse hardware from a 33600/33605. The aim was to produce a new product using as many original parts as possible. It also used the knobs off 35 series modules and meters from a 32264.

They then made a custom motherboard with IDC connectors and an IC regulator power supply but, to be honest, I can't recall when they dumped the original transformers for the mu-metal cased ones... that was a major change to the circuitry I could not understand.

Also, I can't understand the loading resistor they put on the input either... what was wrong with 10Kohm bridging?

I always thought the J version with the big switches needing all the logic ICs and relays was just daft and spoilt the appearance of the unit.

No accounting for taste...

Confused
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Geoff Tanner
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Geoff_T

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Re: [Neve 33609/J discrete] EXT/INT.
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2010, 10:47:50 pm »

2000F wrote on Mon, 18 October 2010 11:05

I reckon you're quite right on some of your points, Geoff.
Years ago I used the first model 33609 with toggle switches and it did not have an EXT/INT switch (but rather a Stereo/Quad toggle switch).
So, the EXT/INT is for remote controlling the unit (and it does not feature a key/sidechain input)? Smile


Hi

From memory the switch either combined the side chains of the two channels (stereo) or connected them to the rear D-sub to connect to further units (quad).

It was my task, as Special Orders Manager, to create the 33609 and I was quite happy (except for the power supply and expensive locking toggle switch) with the result.

I also created the very rare 33615.

Smile
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Geoff Tanner
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NB Please do not pm me if you want a fast response... please email me.
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