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Author Topic: Paragraphic vs. Parametric EQ  (Read 9549 times)

bloodstone

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Paragraphic vs. Parametric EQ
« on: August 19, 2004, 01:58:49 PM »

I've noticed a lot of the software plugins offer paragraphic & parametric eq.  I'm personally finding paragraphic more useful at mastering time.  Would someone explain the difference and offer their opinions of the two?  Thanks.
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bblackwood

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Re: Paragraphic vs. Parametric EQ
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2004, 04:11:57 PM »

Though there may be other definitions, here's how I break down the two:

Paragraphic - fixed width control (Q), adjustments for frequency and boost/cut.
Parametric - adjustable Q, freq, boost/cut.

I think that parametrics are better for almost every application as the added ability to dial in the specific bandwidth is very helpful. That being said, there are a few good EQ's on the market that have fixed Q...
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Brad Blackwood
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bloodstone

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Re: Paragraphic vs. Parametric EQ
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2004, 06:49:05 PM »

bblackwood wrote on Fri, 20 August 2004 21:11

Though there may be other definitions, here's how I break down the two:

Paragraphic - fixed width control (Q), adjustments for frequency and boost/cut.
Parametric - adjustable Q, freq, boost/cut.

I think that parametrics are better for almost every application as the added ability to dial in the specific bandwidth is very helpful. That being said, there are a few good EQ's on the market that have fixed Q...


I was specifically comparing the Izotope Ozone Paragraphic & Waves C10 Paragraphic to the Waves Renaissance Parametric on some work I'm trying to polish up.  Maybe I need to tweak the "Q" on the Renaissance.  Thanks for clarifying.  
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Alécio Costa - Brazil

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Re: Paragraphic vs. Parametric EQ
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2004, 10:54:10 PM »

Brad, Waves Q10 is paragraphic and one can set the Q up to 50(I guess).
BTW.. I do enjoy this plug, although phase shift must be taken into serious evaluation. It quickly distorts with hot signals and some HPH/LPFing.
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cerberus

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Re: Paragraphic vs. Parametric EQ
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2004, 11:58:26 PM »

AFAIK, Waves C10 is a parametric EQ.  The graphic display, showing details of the filter function such as resonance lobes was unique in it's day; so it was given this special name.

Alecio, the Waves LnEQ is an FIR design which does not incur incidental phase shift. It is a very accurate surgical tool, and perhaps it's exactly what you need.

cerberus

TotalSonic

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Re: Paragraphic vs. Parametric EQ
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2004, 01:06:06 AM »

bloodstone wrote on Fri, 20 August 2004 23:49



I was specifically comparing the Izotope Ozone Paragraphic & Waves C10 Paragraphic to the Waves Renaissance Parametric on some work I'm trying to polish up.  Maybe I need to tweak the "Q" on the Renaissance.  Thanks for clarifying.  


In the case of these particular plugins the use of the terms only has to deal with the look of the gui and not with their actual functions.  In terms of "Paragraphic" in the case of these gui's - the different bands all have faders for boost/cut lined up next to each other so that  when they are adjusted it looks like a graphic of the frequency curve.  So the term applies only to the look and the marketing - not to what the eq's capabilities are at all.

But Brad's definitions are much more accurate in terms of traditional hardware design.  A Parametric equalizer is simply one that has adjustable frequency center, cut and boost, and band width (aka Q).  A Graphic eq typically had multiple bands with a narrow fixed q - typically used for room corrections for live foh mixing.  Paragraphic was the compromise between these 2 formats.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

dcollins

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Re: Paragraphic vs. Parametric EQ
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2004, 02:06:37 AM »

bblackwood wrote on Fri, 20 August 2004 13:11




I think that parametrics are better for almost every application as the added ability to dial in the specific bandwidth is very helpful. That being said, there are a few good EQ's on the market that have fixed Q...


That's our B-rad, always willing to go out on a limb with his opinions.

The "graphic" part of the para-graphic is just that -- it draws a graph of the boost/cut.  You can still have a Q control.

But is that graph in 256 colors?

DC

bblackwood

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Re: Paragraphic vs. Parametric EQ
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2004, 08:14:35 AM »

dcollins wrote on Sat, 21 August 2004 01:06


That's our B-rad, always willing to go out on a limb with his opinions.

Hahaha, me? I thought I had no opinions...

I'm sure people can cut good records with fixed Q (can you say 'Davelizer'?), though all of mine are fully parametric. Graphics suck. And so do the NY Giants.
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Brad Blackwood
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dcollins

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Re: Paragraphic vs. Parametric EQ
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2004, 05:21:47 PM »

bblackwood wrote on Sat, 21 August 2004 05:14

dcollins wrote on Sat, 21 August 2004 01:06


That's our B-rad, always willing to go out on a limb with his opinions.

Hahaha, me? I thought I had no opinions...

I'm sure people can cut good records with fixed Q (can you say 'Davelizer'?), though all of mine are fully parametric. Graphics suck. And so do the NY Giants.


Noting that Bernie's eq's are graphic (w/ fixed Q) and he seems to do all right...

Now if we can just get B-rad to take a stand on something and stop with these posts where he likes everything.

DC

bloodstone

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Re: Paragraphic vs. Parametric EQ
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2004, 06:03:32 PM »

Thanks for the comments.  I guess I'm just enjoying my results with the Waves Q10 (sorry, earlier I said C10) and the Izotope Ozone EQs more than the Waves Rennaissance plugs.  And all three do have adjustable Q. I've always been a little more comfortable working with graphic EQ myself (at Oz in Baltimore we ran mixes through a Blonder Tongue before printing to 1/2" tape), but in the realm of mastering I'm definitely a novice trying to learn to use whatever works to make the mix sound better.  Ultimately any EQ of any variety that works warrants consideration for use, right?
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Ronny

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Re: Paragraphic vs. Parametric EQ
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2004, 01:04:29 AM »

bblackwood wrote on Fri, 20 August 2004 16:11

Though there may be other definitions, here's how I break down the two:

Paragraphic - fixed width control (Q), adjustments for frequency and boost/cut.
Parametric - adjustable Q, freq, boost/cut.

I think that parametrics are better for almost every application as the added ability to dial in the specific bandwidth is very helpful. That being said, there are a few good EQ's on the market that have fixed Q...



Your first definition fits closest to a graphic except (Q). Transition bandwidth is fixed but not Q factor. The way it typically works is the transition bandwidth spreads across 3 bands, the center frequency (control) and the band above and below. A 10 band (sometimes 9), has 10 bands each with a band control at each octave. A 15 band has amplitude control at 2/3 octave intervals, a 20 band has amplitude control at 1/2 octaves and a 30 or 31 band has amp control at 1/3 octaves. All usually still have transition bandwidth fixed at the two immediate side band controls. If you raise a slider on a graphic, the curve sharpens (narrower bell) as the amplitude rises, the curve starts and ends at the band above and below so that a 10 band graphic has a fixed transition bandwidth of 2 octaves, where a 20 band has a fixed transition bandwidth at 1 octave.

Q factor (user controlled or not) is variable so that the transition bandwidth widens as amplitude is applied and narrows as amplitude is lowered. If you have a Q factor of 1 at +3dB and boost it to to +6dB, your Q stays fixed but your transition bandwidth widens, IIRC, an octave on either side of the center freq every + or - 3dB, but don't quote me on that. A graphic doesn't do this because the transition bandwidth stays fixed. As you boost (or cut) your Q factor changes. You can't apply or release amplitude without the transition bandwidth being altered if Q is fixed.

While graphics aren't necessarily ideal for a mastering chain, they do have their uses, if you know their parameters and want to control frequencies within them. For example a 31 band grapic makes a fairly good notch filter if you want to attenuate some material that has some narrow band system noise in it, without affecting too many other frequencies, because the Q factor changes and the transition width doesn't, your curve sharpens with gain cut and you never cut outside of that 2/3 octave. I don't feel parametrics are better for almost every application, because although you have control of Q factor (sometimes only bandpass freq's) you typically have less bands that you can control. Because the center freq contols on a graphic have a 3 slider transition bandwidth, almost any curve can be applied across the spectrum, with a grapic representation of your curve reflected on the very controls that you are setting them on. This exceeds rotary controls in that you can always see your curve and with pots, you are dependent at moving closer and viewing the numbers. Paragrapics are better though, because they combine the Q flexibility of a parametric, with the wider band control of a graphic. But I prefer a 120 band sweeping parametric on most of my apps, because I have the availability to control 120 different center frequencies with Q control on 4 of them.
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Bob Olhsson

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Re: Paragraphic vs. Parametric EQ
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2004, 07:23:47 PM »

I certainly never heard of a "paragraphic" equalizer before I saw the first brochure for the WAVES Q-10 plug-in. I'm pretty sure David Ball (Mr. Seva's previous incarnation) coined the term to mean a parametric equalizer having as many bands as a graphic.

Here's his blurb:

"Our challenge in designing Q10 was to develop an equalizer that gave excellent sonic performance and ease of use, but we also wanted to build in enhancements and facilities that would be impractical, if not impossible, to implement in the analog realm. The Q10 also provides a visual representation of the EQ curve that you can adjust by ‘dragging’ the curve itself so you don’t have to rely on conventional controls. However, if you know what EQ settings you want, you can simply enter the numerical values to achieve the same result.

A traditional parametric equalizer might incorporate three or four bands of equalization, Q10 provides up to 10 bands of equalization per channel, configurable as either two independent mono equalizers or as a precisely ganged stereo equalizer. Use just what you need for the job. Each of the 10 bands can be true parametric, high/low shelves, or high/low pass (cut) filters, and to ensure optimum fidelity, each is noise-shaped for the best possible signal-to-noise ratio."

jfrigo

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Re: Paragraphic vs. Parametric EQ
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2004, 12:44:09 AM »

Bob Olhsson wrote on Mon, 23 August 2004 16:23

I certainly never heard of a "paragraphic" equalizer before I saw the first brochure for the WAVES Q-10 plug-in. I'm pretty sure David Ball (Mr. Seva's previous incarnation) coined the term to mean a parametric equalizer having as many bands as a graphic.


Reminds me of that old Orban box; what was it called? it was a 3U box that, IIRC, was 10 band (stereo or dual mono) plus filters and the boost/cut was laid out on faders like a graphic, but you had additional knobs per band for sweep and Q.

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Ronny

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Re: Paragraphic vs. Parametric EQ
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2004, 09:34:13 AM »

jfrigo wrote on Tue, 24 August 2004 00:44

Bob Olhsson wrote on Mon, 23 August 2004 16:23

I certainly never heard of a "paragraphic" equalizer before I saw the first brochure for the WAVES Q-10 plug-in. I'm pretty sure David Ball (Mr. Seva's previous incarnation) coined the term to mean a parametric equalizer having as many bands as a graphic.


Reminds me of that old Orban box; what was it called? it was a 3U box that, IIRC, was 10 band (stereo or dual mono) plus filters and the boost/cut was laid out on faders like a graphic, but you had additional knobs per band for sweep and Q.





You're probably talking about the 674, Jay. It was an 8 band paragraphic, each band had two gain controls side by side on sliders, Q and sweep on rotary pots like you mentioned. Ball might have coined the term paragraphic, but the 674 preceded the Q10 by a long shot and was a true paragraphic, that allowed the transition bandwidth on each band to be altered as well as the center frequency on each slder to sweep within the range of the octave above and below.  
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