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Author Topic: Virtalähde Mastering, Finland - the build thread  (Read 59776 times)

Viitalahde

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Re: Virtalähde Mastering, Finland - the build thread
« Reply #90 on: November 23, 2010, 03:29:24 pm »

http://www.virtalahde.com/2311_takapaa1.jpg

This is the back wall now. Sorry for all the crap. The triangular bass trap is full of wool, and I'm actually quite surprised that I like its presence. I accepted the trap as a sort of a necessity, but now I'm liking it. It's interesting. I'll just have to try to control myself to not to pile up crap on top of it.

http://www.virtalahde.com/2311_sivuseina2.jpg

This is the side wall frame, 100mm in depth and covered with the same stuff I'm going to use in a part of the ceiling. The diffusers will be mounted on top of it.

http://www.virtalahde.com/2311_sivurunko1.jpg

With the diffusers mounted, the depth of this thing is going to be enough to hold some sort of a light that shoots upwards to the wall. I think it could be cool. Another option could be these on both side walls:

http://www.lamppukauppa.fi/tuotteet/seinavalaisimet-moderni/ freya

I'll just have to stare at the room long enough to come into some sort of a conclusion.

The work continues tomorrow with the drywall surfaces. I'll be updating at least on sunday or so, perhaps earlier if things progress fast or something interesting happens like a bobcat invasion to the studio.

Until then - enjoy!
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Jaakko Viitalähde
Virtalähde Mastering, Kuhmoinen/Finland
http://www.virtalahde.com
   http://www.facebook.com/pages/Helsinki-Finland/Virtalahde-Ma stering/278311633180

mastertone

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Re: Virtalähde Mastering, Finland - the build thread
« Reply #91 on: November 23, 2010, 05:28:42 pm »

Very very nice progress Jaakko.

Will you fit a sofa in front of that triangular basstrap?
Is the "closet" for your computer machine vented?
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Jonas Ekstrom
Mastertone Mastering
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mcsnare

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Re: Virtalähde Mastering, Finland - the build thread
« Reply #92 on: November 23, 2010, 08:45:50 pm »

Looking great! I'm very excited for you. I'd bet it's going to sound awesome. What kind of monitor setup are you planning on using?

Dave

Andrew Hamilton

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Re: Virtalähde Mastering, Finland - the build thread
« Reply #93 on: November 24, 2010, 03:24:52 am »

Viitalahde wrote on Wed, 03 November 2010 17:09

...the room is designed to have some reverb left, and a little of this comes from hard drywall surfaces.

I guess you could make a house which is like a fluffy ball of insulation.. Never thought of that. But it's never done, so I suppose there's something to it.


Without creating an anechoic chamber, I think there's a lot to be said for making a control (or mastering) room a Reflection Free Zone.   A primitive root quadratic diffusor on the back wall and a wooden floor from the console to the back wall should be plenty live in a room of that size.   I tend to think that every other wall that is closer than about 30 feet needs to be absorptive or a combination of absorption and diffusion - such as the rooms at Masterdisk (with variously wide vertical panels spaced with burlap-covered insulation between them |_||_|__|_|||_|_||_ etc...).

Viitalahde wrote on Wed, 03 November 2010 17:09


Drywall alone isn't an insulator, but it does prevent wind coming in (the wind barriers don't stop it all), and I suppose it helps in insulation combined with wool.


Precisely how I imagine its insulating quality - wind-breakage, and heat-keepage.  (;

Viitalahde wrote on Wed, 03 November 2010 17:09


I'm not an expert on this, but I do know that 3 months from now, I'll probably have a situation in where there's a 50 degrees celcius of difference between the room temperature and the outside temperature. Room +20, outside -30. I'd better be sure.



"Baby, it's cold outside..."  


Pohjanmaan kautta,
    Andrew

Andrew
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Viitalahde

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Re: Virtalähde Mastering, Finland - the build thread
« Reply #94 on: November 25, 2010, 02:14:00 pm »

mastertone wrote on Wed, 24 November 2010 00:28

Will you fit a sofa in front of that triangular basstrap?
Is the "closet" for your computer machine vented?


No, the sofa appears on some drawings, but I'm going to fit just two chairs there, on both sides of the tip of the bass trap.

The closet will be vented, just a tiny pipe to the outside.

mcsnare wrote on Wed, 24 November 2010 03:45

Looking great! I'm very excited for you. I'd bet it's going to sound awesome. What kind of monitor setup are you planning on using?


Thank you!

The speaker setup is my nr. 1 concern at the moment. I'm trying out an ATC-ish three way speaker (12" ATC woofer and the dome mid + a Morel MDT-33 tweeter in a sealed cabinet), electronic crossover and a 3-way Hypex amp.

I started designing the system years ago, but came to the conclusion that it was simply going to be too damned big for my current room, so I halted it for a while. Now I decided to finish it because I still believe the plan is good, but of course I have not heard the system yet in my new room. I'm planning to do that on week 49.

If it happens that the system just doesn't sound right there, I'll have to figure something out quickly. I probably will try my current Questeds there for starters, or perhaps the bigger ones. The passive 3208's (?) could also work there, and I might be able to use the Hypex amp.  

Actually, I'm pretty sure the system will sound great there, but I'm trying to mentally prepare myself for the worst.

Andrew Hamilton wrote on Wed, 24 November 2010 10:24

Without creating an anechoic chamber, I think there's a lot to be said for making a control (or mastering) room a Reflection Free Zone.   A primitive root quadratic diffusor on the back wall and a wooden floor from the console to the back wall should be plenty live in a room of that size.


I can understand the logic behind that, and it's a good, proven recipe.

It comes down to personal preference and the room-speakers combination. The ultimate aim for me is a room in where I can forget the speakers and just receive a big window of sound I can step into. If I can find the right combination of room sound that helps in this transition and still provides enough accuracy for doing my job, I'll be a happy boy.

Technically, the design of my room is based on a good mix of absorbtive/reflective surfaces (50/50 mix) in the front and back with diffusers (look like some sort of QRD to me) in the back side wall. A small part of the reverb comes from the walls around the doors, but mostly from the upper back wall and the upper side walls. This is further controlled with the ceiling clouds.

We'll soon hear what the room really sounds like, and in case I find it too lively, I have a plenty of 30mm Ecophon panels for further damping.

For some reason, I remember the RT60 estimation floating around 0,38, which seemed surprisinly low to me when you look at the design. If I want to increase it, there's an option of leaving one of the ceiling clouds off.

Andrew Hamilton wrote on Wed, 24 November 2010 10:24

Pohjanmaan kautta


Cheers!
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Jaakko Viitalähde
Virtalähde Mastering, Kuhmoinen/Finland
http://www.virtalahde.com
   http://www.facebook.com/pages/Helsinki-Finland/Virtalahde-Ma stering/278311633180

William Bowden

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Re: Virtalähde Mastering, Finland - the build thread
« Reply #95 on: November 26, 2010, 09:24:11 am »

Great thread, I'm late to the party as usual and this is a fantastic escape from all those newbie questions over at the err, 'other forum'.

I'm curious to know what crossover you're using or planning to use. I'm also interested in running my C4s using either bi-amping or even tri-amping (probably a bit over the top) and I'm going to do some experiments over Xmas if the wife will let me.

I also like a room with some life in it, not sure mine's 50/50, but I've always gone for the theory that most domestic rooms have a lot of live surfaces and I don't think working in semi anechoic rooms is either comfortable or a good reality check. You can always pad it down later anyway.

Like many others I love your location, having a mastering studio in my garden is one of the joys of my life; and being able to pop outside in the sun and listen to the sound of the world is a good break for the old ears.

I await the next photos with anticipation...

The King

Viitalahde

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Re: Virtalähde Mastering, Finland - the build thread
« Reply #96 on: December 06, 2010, 04:14:41 pm »

I believe I promised to do an update a week ago.. So I make no such promises anymore.

http://www.virtalahde.com/0612_etupaa1.jpg

http://www.virtalahde.com/0612_etuoik1.jpg

http://www.virtalahde.com/0612_lattia1.jpg

Check out my Hi-Fi floor! Right now it's installed up to where to doors are at, from there some evening out was needed and the stuff settled in for the weekend. I love that floor so much, but it was stupid expensive.

http://www.virtalahde.com/0612_katto.jpg

I just put the Ecophon panels in, they will be covered with white fabric. If I find that boring, I'll put a layer of some sort of a thin fabric on top of it.

http://www.virtalahde.com/0612_takaoik1.jpg

You probably noticed the color looks different. All white. I start out with white, and then add colors as needed. The front will be red - found a really good looking fabric for it, as well as the bass trap in the back.

The ceiling clouds will most likely have some red in them, too. They're gonna look great hanging from there.

http://www.virtalahde.com/0612_takavas1_diff.jpg

http://www.virtalahde.com/0612_takavas3_diff.jpg

These things I did this weekend. Mounted on top of those Ecophon panels covered with fabric. Screwed with long screws to the wooden frame behind the panels.

http://www.virtalahde.com/0612_diff1.jpg

And this is how they look like close up. Just an hour ago I began to think that I could light up those fabric-exposed gaps with warm white LED's. They could be mounted pointing down on that piece of wood I'm going to put of top the diffusers. So many options!

http://www.virtalahde.com/0612_takavas2_diff.jpg

I found out I screwed up a little. I specified a wall outlet there, but there's nothing above it to attach that shorter diffusor on.

There's some wood around the wall outlet, so I think I'll add a frame of similar wood around it and then screw down the bottom end of the short diffusor to this frame.

http://www.virtalahde.com/0612_hylly1.jpg

The frame of the shelf thing on the back has been deepened now.. Only needs white painted plywood or similar to the top, bottom and the sides.

The floor will be finished next week, and I'll try to have the electrician here next week, too. The next weekend I'm extending until wednesday, and I will be working my ass off to finish as much as possible.

All the remaining fabric will be mounted and the rest of the wood put on. These will be just pieces of wood cut to length, so it's a little quicker.

I've asked to have the ceiling hanger frames here by next weekend so that I could paint & finish them and hang them after the weekend (with some help).

The move-in will happen during 2nd week of January, and I'm sure there will be quite a bit of detail things to do, like hiding ugly seams away with pieces of wood. But it's a nice job to do with the speakers playing in the room.

I'm already getting some hints of the upcoming acoustics, and it feels really good in there.
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Jaakko Viitalähde
Virtalähde Mastering, Kuhmoinen/Finland
http://www.virtalahde.com
   http://www.facebook.com/pages/Helsinki-Finland/Virtalahde-Ma stering/278311633180

Viitalahde

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Re: Virtalähde Mastering, Finland - the build thread
« Reply #97 on: December 06, 2010, 04:22:46 pm »

William Bowden wrote on Fri, 26 November 2010 16:24

I'm curious to know what crossover you're using or planning to use.


Right now I'm using an old ATC crossover that came from a custom installation. It sounds great, but I'll be building a crossover I designed for these speakers within two weeks. I think it will be even better. Nevertheless, the old ATC xover needs some service if it happened I wanted to really use it.

William Bowden wrote on Fri, 26 November 2010 16:24

Like many others I love your location, having a mastering studio in my garden is one of the joys of my life; and being able to pop outside in the sun and listen to the sound of the world is a good break for the old ears.


Sounds great to me, and I'm sure I'll be enjoying it myself. Right now we have no sun, it's winter and the short days we have are kind of grey. But there's a lot of snow already and it's a whole new world again. I like the winter.
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Jaakko Viitalähde
Virtalähde Mastering, Kuhmoinen/Finland
http://www.virtalahde.com
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Podgorny

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Re: Virtalähde Mastering, Finland - the build thread
« Reply #98 on: December 06, 2010, 05:43:44 pm »

Tell me more about the Echophon panels. I looked at their website, but couldn't find the panels you're showing.
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"Nobody cares what the impedance is; all they care about is when you can walk into the room, set up a mic, turn the knobs, hit record, and make everybody go 'wow.'"

Viitalahde

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Re: Virtalähde Mastering, Finland - the build thread
« Reply #99 on: December 07, 2010, 02:34:33 am »

Podgorny wrote on Tue, 07 December 2010 00:43

Tell me more about the Echophon panels. I looked at their website, but couldn't find the panels you're showing.


The exact product name is Ecophon TAL-M, with the "M" standing for the shape of the edges/the proposed attachment system. I haven't glued them - I simply used screws to mount them.

The designer specified the coated & ready Ecophon Focus panels for the room, but I didn't feel like having 600x600 panels with their edges on the ceiling. Same for the side walls. So I went for the TAL panels instead and coated them with fabric. They're 10mm thicker than the Modus panels, but otherwise the same.

I think they're made of glass wool, meant for industrial applications and they're covered with some sort of felt that keeps the glass wool fibres from flying around.
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Jaakko Viitalähde
Virtalähde Mastering, Kuhmoinen/Finland
http://www.virtalahde.com
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Viitalahde

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Re: Virtalähde Mastering, Finland - the build thread
« Reply #100 on: January 03, 2011, 05:01:56 pm »

A month passed so quickly, and not a single update! I was actually going to do one on 23rd December, but I catched a pretty nasty cold for the holidays and even warming up the sauna from -25 degrees a 100 degrees up was a bit of a struggle in that condition.

This is what my room looks like, today.

http://www.virtalahde.com/0601_etupaa.jpg

There's still cosmetic work to hide out all those ugly seams, but the acoustics, according to the plan, is finished. As well is the electricity and the ventilation. So it's technically a fully working room.

http://www.virtalahde.com/0601_etupaa2.jpg

http://www.virtalahde.com/0601_etupaa_oik.jpg

That black thing is the wall mount for the 32" LCD tv. The wooden parts are similarily toned as the rest of the wood around the house.

http://www.virtalahde.com/0601_etupaa_lahi.jpg

Close-up of the diffusor pattern and the fabric behind it. Looks excellent, if I may so say!

http://www.virtalahde.com/0601_lattia1.jpg
http://www.virtalahde.com/0601_lattia2.jpg

I've probably preached about the floor enough already, but it really looks and feels excellent!

http://www.virtalahde.com/0601_saha.jpg

I found this rusted saw when we were still digging the surrounds of the building 3 months back. I think I need to hang it somewhere in the studio. It sucks as a saw but rules as a decoration item.

http://www.virtalahde.com/0601_lamppu.jpg

I didn't buy that big red lamp I was talking of earlier on. It's too big. This was just a cheap and simple lamp, but I kind of liked it so I bought it. I need more lamps!
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Jaakko Viitalähde
Virtalähde Mastering, Kuhmoinen/Finland
http://www.virtalahde.com
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Viitalahde

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Re: Virtalähde Mastering, Finland - the build thread
« Reply #101 on: January 03, 2011, 05:03:27 pm »

http://www.virtalahde.com/0601_taka1.jpg

http://www.virtalahde.com/0601_taka2.jpg

http://www.virtalahde.com/0601_taka3.jpg

This is the triangular bass trap now.. Looks great, and does a nice trick to the eyes as you move around.

http://www.virtalahde.com/0601_kattoelem1.jpg

The ceiling clouds - we installed three of them. The 4th one was an optional one, and for some reason we couldn't have fit it in anyway. The two in the back aren't yet aligned correctly, because the electrician needed to be able to install the lamp sockets on the ceiling.

http://www.virtalahde.com/0601_kattoelem2.jpg

And how the ceiling things look from below. They will be aligned so that the next one is partially covering the other one. After I've aligned them right, I'll also add some safety wires just in case one of those chains fail. They shouldn't, though.

http://www.virtalahde.com/0601_hylly.jpg

The shelves - only need some paint and some decorational wood. And the shelves too, duh.

I also had my new desk in the room for a while during the holidays, but I wasn't a 100% happy about it so I sent it back to the carpenter for modifications. He did a really good job, the desk looks gorgeous, but I'm just being a bit of a dick about the details here.

Earlier on, I planned to move in for good after testing the room for a while. The build has taken a little longer than I predicted, so I'm skipping that and moving into this room next week. My last session is booked for Thursday this week. After this, I'm taking two weeks off for setting up the new room and doing at least some of the remaining cosmetic work, starting from the front.

The truth is that I'm getting pretty tired in living two lives instead of one, so the move has to be done now. Once I have everything in one place, it's going to be a non-brainer to finish the room and have some fun doing it.

I have no idea when the next update is here, but most likely you'll see my room set up there - or at least at the testing stage. Until then.. Enjoy!
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Jaakko Viitalähde
Virtalähde Mastering, Kuhmoinen/Finland
http://www.virtalahde.com
   http://www.facebook.com/pages/Helsinki-Finland/Virtalahde-Ma stering/278311633180

compasspnt

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Re: Virtalähde Mastering, Finland - the build thread
« Reply #102 on: January 03, 2011, 05:43:00 pm »

Looking great, congrats!

Maybe be careful of the rusty saw (encapsulate or seal it?). Is rust contagious?
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mcsnare

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Re: Virtalähde Mastering, Finland - the build thread
« Reply #103 on: January 03, 2011, 05:57:00 pm »

Outstanding!! Thanks for the update.

Dave

mastertone

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Re: Virtalähde Mastering, Finland - the build thread
« Reply #104 on: January 04, 2011, 07:07:06 am »

Damn! Looking good Jaakko!

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Jonas Ekstrom
Mastertone Mastering
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