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Author Topic: Vleodyne Subs unreliable?  (Read 6901 times)

Andy Krehm

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Vleodyne Subs unreliable?
« on: September 18, 2010, 08:27:14 PM »

We been using two Velodyne D10s for three years.

I am about to have the THIRD power amp replaced! It's nol the same one either; 2 for the LS and 1 for the RS.

I see lots of Velodyne subs on mastering studio gear lists. Has anyone else had these sorts of reoccurring issues with them?

Our room is professionally designed, the wiring was done by a pro and we have our own circuit for the studio and use balanced power.

We have been speculating at the possible cause of this.

1) too small? but they sound PERFECT in our 400 sq. ft. room and mate beautifully with our Lipinsky 505s

2) get pro subs? that's what the stereo shop that sold them to us said! I explained that a lot of mastering suites use them

3) too many hours? between the 2 full-time engineers, these subs are running an average of 12 15 hours per day, and average of 6 days a week for 3 years

4) something with the studio wiring? as I said, the studio was wired by a pro who does studios but maybe something is going intermittently wrong? No other gear continually has the same part go this often.

5) 2 ideas from the Stereo shop: 1. "take your control amp (Preamp) to a tech, ask him to check any DC oscillation generated when turn on/off ;  when switching  selector, when turn vol up and down" 2."check all the wire, make sure there is any shorted connections,damaged cable, etc". The repairs were done by a recommended depot. Shouldn't they have checked for these things?

Any thoughts, ideas on this?


Phil Demetro

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Re: Vleodyne Subs unreliable?
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2010, 08:47:22 PM »

Can I swear on here?
Made in China.
Total shit.

My 3rd set of electronics. Too tired to type the problems but you can call me next week if you like.

Things are calm with them right now but there was a brief span when they kept failing - so glad that they're not at all necessary to my setup.

Awesome if they work though - the way it should be.

Expensive to fix but THE guy who does is Rob Tracy: All In One Electronics in Downsview.
rtracy@all-electronics.com
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Phil Demetro
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Andy Krehm

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Re: Vleodyne Subs unreliable?
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2010, 08:58:10 PM »

Phil Demetro wrote on Sat, 18 September 2010 20:47

Can I swear on here?
Made in China.
Total shit.

My 3rd set of electronics. Too tired to type the problems but you can call me next week if you like.

Things are calm with them right now but there was a brief span when they kept failing - so glad that they're not at all necessary to my setup.

Awesome if they work though - the way it should be.

Expensive to fix but THE guy who does is Rob Tracy: All In One Electronics in Downsview.
rtracy@all-electronics.com

3rd set of electronics for yours!?!?

I didn't mention that the demo unit we got (before we bought) had ALL the insides replaced. Of course this was done by the dealer so this would be our 4th big problem with Velodyne subs in 3 years!

BTW, the guy that does our repairs is the same Rob you mentioned.

Unfortunately, my mains do not go low enough to really cover the frequencies that I need so when one has to go in for repair, we take the good sub and put it in the middle. A slight change in volume level and we are working again. Unfortunately, due to the cramped space behind the desk, it takes two to do it!

bblackwood

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Re: Vleodyne Subs unreliable?
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2010, 09:04:21 PM »

Dual DD12's for what, 6 years now? One amp failure in what equates to 12 years of daily service = no complaints.
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Brad Blackwood
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compasspnt

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Re: Vleodyne Subs unreliable?
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2010, 10:42:14 PM »

I got a 10 to try out, but it didn't work when I FIRST plugged it in, so I went to something else.
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mcsnare

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Re: Vleodyne Subs unreliable?
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2010, 12:41:48 AM »

The one I had blew up. I got it repaired by the factory. I only use it on my home setup now.

Dave

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Re: Vleodyne Subs unreliable?
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2010, 07:09:06 AM »

haaa Velodyne !

french distributor Hamysound is top notch,
but the subs ... mhhh

last year i 've been asked to conceive the sound for an art project showed at the Venice artbienal,

the sound were some boat/barge field recording processed,
as the visitors had to have the feeling that the boats passed thru the exhibition space, so the sound had to be very realistic, so we choosed to go really high end for the sound system
initially with 6 klinger favre Studio 15 above 90hz, and 6 DD18 bellow, with weiss sound card & converters to play the audio...

after one month of exhibition, i had to come back to the site because some huge detonations hapenned there, but when i say huge it was really to have an attac,

after a lot of investigation into the different points of the system, i isolated the problem coming from several DD18.
the distributor sent 2 brand new ones immediatly, as two speakers had been broken by the force of the detonation (they have been fully repaired after free of charge luckily).
after two days the same problem hapened !!! (but we took the dd18 out before they broke this time )

then i decided to change the whole subbass set up by Klinger Favre ones, Jean Jacques Bacquet (he's The Man ! ) helped me a lot on this lending free of charge 6 subs whom 2 where two enormous ones (110kg) that could reproduce down to 8hz !!!!!
i NEVER heard this !
i could not correct the frequency range with them, as their conception was minimalistic, but tuning their position i could end to have an even better effect than with the DD18

after having the 6 DD18 replaced i was still trying to figure what was hapening in there as neither velodyne or hamysound could figure what were producing those detonations.

i finaly ended up one month later to understand, and have been confirmed the truth by someone close to velodyne.
as you may know, in the digital drive serie the audio once filtered, pass to the amps, then to the speaker,
an accelerometer fixed onto the speaker measure its movement . this measurement is compared by the inboard cpu to what should be the theorical position according to the audio sent, then if the position of the speaker is not right the cpu order the amp to add extra power to replace the speaker in the right position.

it hapen that the CPU program had been realised to react to horizontal movement only.

The floor of the gallery was very old, and the bass produced was so huge that in some point it was vibrating verticaly, enough to have the dd18 moving with it (it's 65kg!)
so then the accelerometer was also measuring a vertical movement wich the cpu couldn't handle right,
so it was ordering the amps huge quantity of power to replace the speaker in what he calculated to be the right position,
the quantity of power was so huge that is was producing those enormous detonations. the speaker movement was so violent that the accelerometers start to get loosed from the speaker tehy 're supposed to be fixed on and so produced even worse reactions from the cpu ending in speaker breaking .

at that time no one at velodyne wanted to confirm this, it had been discretly told later by someone who confirmed me that they had the same concern with a russian petrol magnat who wanted one DD18 in each cabin of its boat (there where a tenth... no comment ... ) and they stated in the contract that the DD18 should not be in use when the boat where travelling or when the swell was too important.


so don't tell me about velodyne reliability ...

Klinger Favre ones have worked perfectly for the 5 month left to the exhibition, 9 hours a day.

conclusion:
better use a very well done traditionnal design than tricky high-tech things ...

at least it worked for me !




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Thomas W. Bethel

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Re: Vleodyne Subs unreliable?
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2010, 07:43:18 AM »

Get some REL (http://www.rel.net/) subwoofers and you will never go back to anything else. Somewhat pricey but they are built like a tank and work really really GREAT!!!!
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Thomas W. Bethel
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Silvertone

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Re: Vleodyne Subs unreliable?
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2010, 08:00:43 AM »

8 years... totally reliable... no problems whatsoever... sound great...  

too bad about the defective ones some have gotten... it happens with every company I guess...

Want to talk GML, Cranesong, Requisite, Buzz, Z-systems, Weiss, Dangerous and all the other stuff that blew up or failed for me over the years... these are all great companies but some of these products have been back two or three times to the manufacture... it happens...

Still the Velodynes are great subs.... just sayin...
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Andy Krehm

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Re: Vleodyne Subs: POLL so far
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2010, 10:22:14 AM »

5 posters = negative experience

2 posters = positive experience

1 poster = recommends his brand

If that was the response to my company's performance, I'd be very concerned for our future! And I'd be working very hard on improving the product.

Keep 'em coming!

And, as per my first post, I'm still wondering if there is something going on in the electrical network of our building/studio that could be triggering Velodyne amps to blow. However, after seeing how many others have had problems, I'm thinking we are are fine on that score. And as I said, there's no other gear that is breaking down with exactly the same problem 3 times in 3 years.

Thomas W. Bethel

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Re: Vleodyne Subs: POLL so far
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2010, 11:35:02 AM »

Andy,

I don't know how electronically savvy you are but today NOTHING is built to last. Everyone is trying to cut corners to make more money. In the "olde days" if a capacitor was suppose to be used with a 25 volt DC source most engineers would put in a 50 VDC capacitor but today it would probably be 30 VDC cap. If a transformer was suppose to be providing a 2 amp current most engineers would put in a 3.0 amp or 3.5 amp transformer just in case. But today they would give you 2 amps PERIOD. In the "olde days" you put in a good DC power supply that was brute force with a nice piece of iron in it. Today you get a switching power supply that may be working at line voltage with no transformer and if something in the power supply goes no one except the manufacture can fix it and it will probably cost you what a new power supply would have cost. As more and more companies try and make up for lost sales they are going to do anything and everything to save money and if that means using electronic parts that are right on the edge of being usable for the job at hand they will do it.

Velodyne is a GREAT company and make GREAT speakers but like every other mass market audio visual company they have been hit hard by the recession and are trying to keep up with the demands for their speakers while still watching the bottom line.

It is a no win situation and unless you are spending the big bucks for some esoteric piece of equipment I think all mass market audio manufactures are being hard hit by NOT being able to raise prices, to be innovative and produce goods that will perform well. Unfortunately some of these items may not be good long term investments.

Hopefully this rush for the bottom line will not be something that is a given when the current recession is over. Or when companies are again run by non bean counters.

FWIW and MTCW
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Thomas W. Bethel
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Acoustik Musik, Ltd.
Room With a View Productions
http://www.acoustikmusik.com/

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Andy Krehm

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Re: Vleodyne Subs: POLL so far
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2010, 04:08:58 PM »

Thomas W. Bethel wrote on Sun, 19 September 2010 11:35

Andy,

I don't know how electronically savvy you are but today NOTHING is built to last. Everyone is trying to cut corners to make more money. In the "olde days" if a capacitor was suppose to be used with a 25 volt DC source most engineers would put in a 50 VDC capacitor but today it would probably be 30 VDC cap. If a transformer was suppose to be providing a 2 amp current most engineers would put in a 3.0 amp or 3.5 amp transformer just in case. But today they would give you 2 amps PERIOD. In the "olde days" you put in a good DC power supply that was brute force with a nice piece of iron in it. Today you get a switching power supply that may be working at line voltage with no transformer and if something in the power supply goes no one except the manufacture can fix it and it will probably cost you what a new power supply would have cost. As more and more companies try and make up for lost sales they are going to do anything and everything to save money and if that means using electronic parts that are right on the edge of being usable for the job at hand they will do it.

Velodyne is a GREAT company and make GREAT speakers but like every other mass market audio visual company they have been hit hard by the recession and are trying to keep up with the demands for their speakers while still watching the bottom line.

It is a no win situation and unless you are spending the big bucks for some esoteric piece of equipment I think all mass market audio manufactures are being hard hit by NOT being able to raise prices, to be innovative and produce goods that will perform well. Unfortunately some of these items may not be good long term investments.

Hopefully this rush for the bottom line will not be something that is a given when the current recession is over. Or when companies are again run by non bean counters.

FWIW and MTCW

Velodyne meet Bryston! You will learn a lot about reliability!

Podgorny

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Re: Vleodyne Subs: POLL so far
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2010, 10:23:21 PM »

I can't vouch for the DD series, but I've got two VA-1215s running with no problems.
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Ed Littman

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Re: Vleodyne Subs: POLL so far
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2010, 08:24:38 AM »



Andy Krehm wrote on Sun, 19 September 2010 10:22

5 posters = negative experience

2 posters = positive experience

1 poster = recommends his brand

If that was the response to my company's performance, I'd be very concerned for our future! And I'd be working very hard on improving the product.

Keep 'em coming!




I've got a single DD12 w/power on 24/7 for 2years with no problems so far.

Ed
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Macc

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Re: Vleodyne Subs unreliable?
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2010, 01:06:15 PM »

I don't know about Velodynes, so I can't comment on those. I just had to put my shout in for Rythmik Audio. Astonishing performace at a ridiculous price. The design is a masterstroke IMO.

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/

(seems to be down at the moment though..?)

Used at Sterling Sound now, I believe. You will get two subs and change for a bag of chips on the way home out of the cost of one Velodyne...

Only partially relevant, but some tests - more for hi-fi stuff but enlightening nevertheless - can be found here;

http://www.dvdplaza.fi/forums/showthread.php?t=59778

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Bob Macciochi

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Matt_G

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Re: Vleodyne Subs unreliable?
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2010, 11:53:33 PM »

I've got 2 x DD12's had one of them for over 5 years, the other one about 2 years. The old one threw an amp module but I think that it was a bad power surge/spike that got that one. As it was working right up until the power went out, but as soon as it came back on the amp module was no longer working.

Apart from that one issue & getting aggro at Velodyne support for not supplying me with the info needed to convert the newer purchased sub from 110V to 220V I've been happy with their reliability & even more so with their sound.

 
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Matthew Gray Mastering

Brisbane Australia

Matt_G

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Re: Vleodyne Subs unreliable?
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2010, 11:56:56 PM »

Macc wrote on Tue, 21 September 2010 03:06


Only partially relevant, but some tests - more for hi-fi stuff but enlightening nevertheless - can be found here;

http://www.dvdplaza.fi/forums/showthread.php?t=59778




fwiw.. the test page doesn't have any DD series Velodynes.. just one of the cheaper series Velodynes.
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Matthew Gray Mastering

Brisbane Australia

Macc

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Re: Vleodyne Subs unreliable?
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2010, 06:43:02 AM »

I know... but it just rang a bell so I thought I'd mention it Smile

Shame they don't have more of the serious subs on there though.
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Bob Macciochi

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drknob

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Re: Vleodyne Subs unreliable?
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2010, 11:51:57 AM »

We've had 10 Velodyne SPL1000R used in moderate listening environments over the last 3 years and we've had 4 failures. Unacceptable.
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Harold Kilianski
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