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[gutr2]

I'm not sure what joining the forums has to do with anything.
By the way I joined this forum by invite from Fletcher.

I'm not trying to get you or anybody to side with me.
I'm just exposing what I believe to be unacceptable customer service from an audio company such as Lavry. As said many times before, they have the right to have whatever absurd repair pricing policies they want. Who am I to say that's WRONG? I can have an opinion on it, which doesn't change their "right".

I can choose to find it expensive because I'm not rich or a commercial studio. I can choose to agree with Fletcher in saying that repairs should NOT be a "PROFIT CENTER"

mazoaudio wrote on Thu, 16 September 2010 13:13

Word. I'm with you Tom. And this really the way we want someone to join the forum with a trash talkin' thread like this? I have no Lavry gear either.

[seedyunderbelly.com]

APuzzla,

I Will say that at whatever cost the Lavry Gold sounds Killer.

I bought mine from a friend who had a different and positive experience getting it serviced...    Odd...

I would PM Jim to find out what to do or bite the bullet and be done with it..

Good Luck

[Waltz Mastering]

gutr2 wrote on Thu, 16 September 2010 16:23

I'm not sure what joining the forums has to do with anything. By the way I joined this forum by invite from Fletcher. I'm not trying to get you or anybody to side with me. I'm just exposing what I believe to be unacceptable customer service from an audio company such as Lavry. As said many times before, they have the right to have whatever absurd repair pricing policies they want. Who am I to say that's WRONG? I can have an opinion on it, which doesn't change their "right". I can choose to find it expensive because I'm not rich or a commercial studio. I can choose to agree with Fletcher in saying that repairs should NOT be a "PROFIT CENTER" mazoaudio wrote on Thu, 16 September 2010 13:13 Word. I'm with you Tom. And this really the way we want someone to join the forum with a trash talkin' thread like this? I have no Lavry gear either.

It seems like yours is an unfortunate situation.  

I don't think that you understand that  what they were trying to tell you was that your unit was un-repairable.  It could not be fixed.  It needed to be replaced with a new one.

It looks like they tried to accommodate you but you did not accept it and proceeded to get under their skin.

They said " The issue they saw with your unit was rare".
How would they know that you didn't f it up?  Your word?

You've mentioned that they did give you great service before... What do you hope to accomplish by publicly discrediting their service now?

[gutr2]

Hi Tom,

Yes it's unfortunate.
Maybe I don't understand that they're trying to "accommodate" me by charging $780 on a $880 piece of gear. You may feel "accommodated" by that, but I sure don't.
I have no trouble understanding or agreeing that is un-repairable.

You're right they can't prove that I didn't screw up the unit, except my word. And usually to high end manufacturers, that's good enough.
How do I screwup up a converter anyway? I wouldn't even know how to. I baby all my gear and this is second time in my entire life I have a piece fail on me. In fact it toasted on morning, I wasn't even using it, I could see and smell the smoke in the air.

They have given me great support before (Brad Johnson) and the ONLY two things I'm criticizing here are the customer service (not tech support) and the pricing policies.

This is a public forum and we're both entitled to our views.
I felt I had a good enough reason to "moan".
I'm not sure what this will achieve, so far lots of comfort.

Waltz Mastering wrote on Thu, 16 September 2010 13:34

gutr2 wrote on Thu, 16 September 2010 16:23 I'm not sure what joining the forums has to do with anything. By the way I joined this forum by invite from Fletcher. I'm not trying to get you or anybody to side with me. I'm just exposing what I believe to be unacceptable customer service from an audio company such as Lavry. As said many times before, they have the right to have whatever absurd repair pricing policies they want. Who am I to say that's WRONG? I can have an opinion on it, which doesn't change their "right". I can choose to find it expensive because I'm not rich or a commercial studio. I can choose to agree with Fletcher in saying that repairs should NOT be a "PROFIT CENTER" mazoaudio wrote on Thu, 16 September 2010 13:13 Word. I'm with you Tom. And this really the way we want someone to join the forum with a trash talkin' thread like this? I have no Lavry gear either. It seems like yours is an unfortunate situation.   I don't think that you understand that  what they were trying to tell you was that your unit was un-repairable.  It could not be fixed.  It needed to be replaced with a new one. It looks like they tried to accommodate you but you did not accept it and proceeded to get under their skin. They said " The issue they saw with your unit was rare". How would they know that you didn't f it up?  Your word? You've mentioned that they did give you great service before... What do you hope to accomplish by publicly discrediting their service now?

[J.J. Blair]

I'll just say that all the customer service and repair experiences I've had with Apogee have been wonderful.  

[jetbase]

Andre, it seems that you think that they are trying to rip you off with the price of the repair. Why don't you take the unit to another technician who has experience repairing digital equipment? You'll either be justified by the difference in cost or you may find the cost is similar. But at some point you have to decide whether it's worth spending the money repairing or replacing the unit so that you can then get a return on it.

FWIW I don't leave my converters on when I'm not using them, as they tend to run hot (as in high temp) & I figure that may tend to cause parts to fail over an extended period of time, as I believe was the case when mine failed.

Best regards,
Glenn

[Otitis Media]

You know, as this story unfolds, you're making rather grand assumptions about Lavry and what it's like to be in business.

It's also rather presumptuous to ask a company to reduce its profit as you put it. You have NO idea what their margins even are, and I'll guarantee you that you cost Lavry money by diverting the attention of a management employee and a tech in their attempts to "make you whole."

You've stated over and over again that the part that needs replacement is less than $100. How do you know that? If you've got some actual evidence of such, cool, otherwise, you're talking out your ass.

They have to pay the person working on your unit, and when its broken, the diagnosis and repair can very well be more labor intensive than building a brand-new, normal unit. Sounds to me like you were asking Lavry to eat every single penny.

It's not cool to treat customers poorly, especially in an industry so small, but would you accept the same kind of treatment back from one of your clients? Be reasonable.

[Christopher Wilson]

If you find a credible bench-tech who repairs gear like that fairly inexpensively, let me know because I have work for him.  Seriously.

If you are confronted with a situation like this again, I encourage you to determine the desired outcome of your thread before you post it.  Then, construct solution oriented posts in a manor that will help get you there.  Perhaps the title Terrible Customer Service wasn't the best starting place.

That, and the plethora of negative posts (mainly Gearslutz) cause your threads to read less like a request for advice and more like an act of retaliation.  Being the progenitor of four pages of slanderous remarks (Gearslutz) isn't going to help you, and I doubt it's what you had intended.  That doesn't feel like the kind of person you are.  I wish this had been presented in a manner that kept people focused on fixing your A/D.

[Phil Mayor]

Snotty customer service people and companies suffering with visions of grandeur. I've come across it many times sadly.

You only have to look at companies like Bricasti, how great they are..they fall over themselves to help you...out of warranty or not. Humble people you see.

I would have repaired it FOC immediately and without quibble. The good reputation you build from customers from doing it that way is worth much more than the buy-in cost of your replacement part. That's just basic common sense surely?

[McAllister]

J.J. Blair wrote on Wed, 15 September 2010 21:41

When a specialized boutique company of this size exists, they need to be known for their customer service. as much as the quality of their product.

Precisely.

[Silvertone]

I had a problem with my Dangerous monitor at one point (for about 3 years!) and Chris would do everything possible to try and find the problem... I can't tell you how many things he replaced in that unit... in the end he ended up getting me a whole new chip-set for the rig even though he thought it was just this one chip... which it turned out to be.  When I asked why he sent over 300.00 in chips to me (straight from Mouser) he said he wanted me to have spares on hand in case another problem arises.

This unit went down to Chris' place three different times... a three hour trip by car. I hung with him while he worked on it for hours on end each time.  He replaced 3 different DA converters that kept blowing because of this problem...  and not once did he ask me for a dime.  He knew his product should not be doing this and stood behind it.  Now THAT is customer service.

btw... I've had equally good service with Dave Hill (Cranesong), Danny McKinney (Requisite), Tim Farrent (Buzz Audio) and Daniel Weiss (Weiss Engineering)... never a charge when one of their products went down... even years after being out of "warranty".

Tom I understand your position of being the little guy... but I find it's the little guys (like myself) that really have to go above and beyond when it comes to customer service.

All the companies mentioned above have gotten repeat business from me and I highly recommend their products all the time.

I'm just sayin'...

[maarvold]

One thing that nobody here has mentioned is the implied lifespan of a product.  For example, I seem to remember that a rule of thumb is that refrigerators are generally designed to last 15 years, but I'll bet there are no refrigerators with a 15 year warrantee, or even a 10 year warrantee.  If the refrigerator breaks after 6 years, I wouldn't generally expect the repair cost to equal the cost of everything except the power cord, butter tray, plastic vegetable drawer and light bulb.  And if it did, I wouldn't buy that brand again.  YMMV.  

[Jon Hodgson]

gutr2 wrote on Thu, 16 September 2010 21:59

Hi Tom, Yes it's unfortunate. Maybe I don't understand that they're trying to "accommodate" me by charging $780 on a $880 piece of gear. You may feel "accommodated" by that, but I sure don't. I have no trouble understanding or agreeing that is un-repairable.

But where do you get your idea that it only costs them $100 or so?

Your board isn't going to be repaired, it's got a burnt out track so they can't reuse the board, removing components is going to be a hassle and they'll be hard to reuse and they shouldn't really be giving anyone anything off a board that had something that dramatic go wrong with it in my opinion, who knows what secondary damage may have occurred. so they'll bin it.

The cost to them is therefore the cost of a whole new board, components and manufacture. In addition there is the labour cost to them, whatever that may be, some of which they've already incurred in finding the fault, and also the cost of whoever has been dealing with you (every minute they spend with you is a minute they can't spend on a profit making activity, support costs can cripple a company if they don't get things right).

Now I don't know what that adds up to, but it's going to be rather more than 100 bucks I'm pretty sure.

Not saying I'd have done things the way Lavry have (especially since I don't have all the details), but you're making a big assumption about the cost to them.

[gutr2]

Hi there Jon,

Yes I would making a big assumption on the cost of the part if I actually knew what I was talking about. I don't. I was guessing.

However an expert told me the chip MAY cost $50. Heck for all I know the ENTIRE module they proposed to replace may cost them $300, which I very much doubt (dealer price is $660).

I would be perfectly happy to pay $300, or even $400!
In fact I emailed Lavry saying " I accept the dealer price (of $660), but then I received an invoice for $780, which they had added a labor fee which they had promised to wave. With threats to return my broken unit, and suggest I sell it on ebay.

The point of my "moan" is to expose their unhelpful, childish, spiteful, mean, stingy behavior towards customers, which in my opinion, was uncalled for and undeserved.

I know a thing or two about customer satisfaction, and everybody on this forum has experienced the kind of customer service that we've come to expect from "high end" audio gear manufacturers.

Maybe we're wrong to expect that, and maybe Lavry is doing NOTHING wrong. But I can certainly choose to not support them and let potential buyers be aware of their customer service.

I don't wish they burn in hell, I wish they would improve their customer service, hire someone, whatever, review their repair pricing policies, have some goodwill, be on the customer's team and not against it.

If they don't change, they will loose more and more customers, more and more dealers will drop their line.

Jon Hodgson wrote on Fri, 17 September 2010 09:02

gutr2 wrote on Thu, 16 September 2010 21:59 Hi Tom, Yes it's unfortunate. Maybe I don't understand that they're trying to "accommodate" me by charging $780 on a $880 piece of gear. You may feel "accommodated" by that, but I sure don't. I have no trouble understanding or agreeing that is un-repairable. But where do you get your idea that it only costs them $100 or so? Your board isn't going to be repaired, it's got a burnt out track so they can reuse the board, removing components is going to be a hassle and they'll be hard to reuse and they shouldn't really be giving anyone anything off a board that had something that dramatic go wrong with it in my opinion, who knows what secondary damage may have occurred. so they'll bin it. The cost to them is therefore the cost of a whole new board, components and manufacture. In addition there is the labour cost to them, whatever that may be, some of which they've already incurred in finding the fault, and also the cost of whoever has been dealing with you (every minute they spend with you is a minute they can't spend on a profit making activity, support costs can cripple a company if they don't get things right). Now I don't know what that adds up to, but it's going to be rather more than 100 bucks I'm pretty sure. Not saying I'd have done things the way Lavry have (especially since I don't have all the details), but you're making a big assumption about the cost to them.

[gutr2]

I just want to THANK the mods here at this forum!

My thread on gearslutz was deleted and I was threatened to be banned.