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Author Topic: Sometimes a mono mix is the way to go.  (Read 8503 times)

Fletcher

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Re: Sometimes a mono mix is the way to go.
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2011, 07:27:47 pm »

mgod wrote on Sun, 02 January 2011 16:30

Jay Kadis wrote on Sun, 02 January 2011 11:02

I'm not defining my mixes for people with compromised systems:  they wouldn't notice the difference anyway.

Yeah, sure - why not? But a lot of people aren't going to hear a goodly chunk of your work. Just the way it happens, unfortunately.


...but we're not working for the "lowest common denominator" -- we're supposed to be making the highest quality product possible.

We need to consider "sub-standard" listening environments -- but only to make sure that our product works "everywhere" - not an effort to tailor the product for those "sub - standard" environments.

Peace.
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.  
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

mgod

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Re: Sometimes a mono mix is the way to go.
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2011, 09:39:47 pm »

Fletcher wrote on Sun, 02 January 2011 16:27

...but we're not working for the "lowest common denominator" -- we're supposed to be making the highest quality product possible.

We need to consider "sub-standard" listening environments -- but only to make sure that our product works "everywhere" - not an effort to tailor the product for those "sub - standard" environments.

Peace.

Sure, sure, we always do. But we ought to be doing it knowing that for a lot of people, maybe most people, mono would work better  for hearing all the parts of the music.
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marcel

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Re: Sometimes a mono mix is the way to go.
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2011, 12:08:12 am »

A good mono mix is a thing of beauty, at least as much as a good stereo (or surround, for that matter) mix.

While I agree that we should be striving for the best possible product, I don't think mono mixes are somehow inferior to multi-channel.
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Best, Marcel

compasspnt

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Re: Sometimes a mono mix is the way to go.
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2011, 12:59:07 am »

The great thing about using M/S in rock recording is that you just eliminate the S, and have a decent sound.
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MagnetoSound

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Re: Sometimes a mono mix is the way to go.
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2011, 07:38:36 am »

Edward Vinatea wrote on Mon, 03 January 2011 00:12

I said:


Quote:

"but with the advantage of being able to manipulate the M/S channels".




My statement assumes that you know how to create a sum-and-difference matrix and that your mix is still a work in progress, i.e., maybe you are even mixing with stems. But that's another subject for another day in another thread.

Here is a clue: the mid and side channels can be adjusted and reconfigured to more accurately represent the conventional left and right stereo image, thus useful for corrective phase cancellation issues, controlling frequency content, and while you can go overboard with m-s foolishness, it isn't really anything that a well balanced, well distributed {frequency wise} "discrete" stereo mix can't achieve. But for some situations, very useful indeed.

Edward





Edward,


As we all know, good stereo recordings are designed to be collapsible to mono and M/S recordings are no different in that respect.



In fact they are, in essence, mono to begin with!




Edward said:

Working with a mono mix is alright for speech, guitar/vocal performances and things that aren't too complex in both production and arrangement...




You are correct here, but it is not just about what is 'alright' - mono can actually be preferable!


Sometimes less is more, you know - is what is being said by the majority of posters in this thread.



So I would like to offer some friendly advice to help you get along: instead of talking down to people here in the manner that you do, why don't you consider the opinion of some of the most learned and experienced professionals on this forum (I do not mean myself, even though your suggestion that I have no experience of the various techniques of stereo capture is incorrect and unnecessarily insulting) - and actually read the posts of those for whom mixing in mono has been no hindrance to achieving great success in their careers, and who are extolling the virtues of mono mixing for a variety of sonic reasons - rather than dismissing it out of hand for reasons of marketability?



In my humble opinion, and many others, stereo is not an absolute requirement for a good mix - it is simply an effect, one of many, one that can be chosen or not according to taste and/or desirability.


That said, I do not live in an ivory tower - of course I accept that, in the modern world, stereo is the accepted norm and for that reason is generally expected by both producer and consumer alike. However, in my experience, mono done well is almost indistinguishable from stereo on casual listening. It can have depth, nuance and texture just like a good stereo mix, but greater solidity - and with the advantage that the balance is secure at all listening positions, and on all playback systems that one is likely to encounter in the real world.



YMMV.

Best Wishes,

Dan


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Music can make me get right up out of my chair and start dancing or it can get me so pumped up I have to walk around the block.
It can also knock me back and make me sit there and cry like a little baby. This shit is as powerful as any drug!!!
- Larry DeVivo

Edward Vinatea

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Re: Sometimes a mono mix is the way to go.
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2011, 09:58:31 am »

MagnetoSound wrote on Mon, 03 January 2011 07:38


So I would like to offer some friendly advice to help you get along: instead of talking down to people here in the manner that you do, why don't you consider the opinion of some of the most learned and experienced professionals on this forum (I do not mean myself, even though your suggestion that I have no experience of the various techniques of stereo capture is incorrect and unnecessarily insulting) -.....



And my advice to you is that you learn the difference between having confidence and having an 'attitude' on a professional forum. In addition, learn to respect and pay careful attention to what others are saying. When you leave comments such as the ones you just did above, it only makes you look more insecure than knowledgeable.

After your seemingly unprovoked and pointless bickering, I am glad we can finally establish that "mono is preferably" to you, while stereo is preferable to my clients.

In the future, keep in mind that my personal views don't have to automatically negate your own.

Have a nice day,

Edward

MagnetoSound

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Re: Sometimes a mono mix is the way to go.
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2011, 11:33:04 am »


Have a nice day Edward.  Smile


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Music can make me get right up out of my chair and start dancing or it can get me so pumped up I have to walk around the block.
It can also knock me back and make me sit there and cry like a little baby. This shit is as powerful as any drug!!!
- Larry DeVivo

Fletcher

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Re: Sometimes a mono mix is the way to go.
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2011, 02:00:27 pm »

Most of the elements in "stereo" mixes are indeed mono sources that are panned for the illusion of space.  There are some stereo elements that are often found - usually things like reverbs and such, but other than things like "drum overheads" and possibly "room tracks" there are usually rather few elements that are truly stereo.

At the end of the day, I've always found it to be rather important that the "mix" not lose anything but "left / right size" when the mono button is engaged.  There shouldn't be a build up or cancelation in any of the frequency ranges... which I've found is usually best accomplished by mixing in mono for the majority of a mix situation... panning when monitoring in mono can actually give you quite a bit of information that you won't necessarily get from the mix when monitoring exclusively in stereo.

To each their own... but I have found this to be a viable working program.  As always, YMMV.

Peace
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.  
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

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