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Author Topic: A leightweight floating concrete floor  (Read 5446 times)

PeterDraaisma

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A leightweight floating concrete floor
« on: August 29, 2010, 06:33:05 pm »

For more than a half year ago i started the this topic: http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/30364/0/

I want to build my new mix/recording room in my new house on the first floor. The walls and floors/ceilings are made of 25 cm concrete, on both sides i have neighbours. The room in which i want to build my new studio is 2.66m*4.8m*5.45m. I want to use the room for mixing, recording vocals, acoustic guitars and percussion.

After al your reactions i started thinking for the best possible solution for my room. I spoke with the constructor of the building and the floor can handle 175 kilo’s a square meter. That is not enough for a big concrete floor. After searching the sites of kinetics and cdm uk i found a floor construction with 5 cm concrete on lewis steal plates. http://www.cdm-uk.co.uk/CDM-UK_PDS/Building/Floor/BBC_Worksh ops.pdf   http://www.reppel.nl/lewis.html?gclid=COmKqLvU36MCFQEs3godHy IgBQ

On such a the floor i wanted to build the walls with metal studs, two layers off 1.25 cm drywall with greenglue between them, and 10 cm rock or glass wool, an airgap and then the existing walls. To spare weight i wanted to use isoclips to hang the ceiling, two layers off 1.25 cm drywall.

What do you  think of this idea? Do you have build such ”thin” floors?

Best regards,

Peter
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Thomas Jouanjean

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Re: A leightweight floating concrete floor
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2010, 12:23:18 pm »

PeterDraaisma wrote on Sun, 29 August 2010 17:33

For more than a half year ago i started the this topic: http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/30364/0/

I want to build my new mix/recording room in my new house on the first floor. The walls and floors/ceilings are made of 25 cm concrete, on both sides i have neighbours. The room in which i want to build my new studio is 2.66m*4.8m*5.45m. I want to use the room for mixing, recording vocals, acoustic guitars and percussion.

After al your reactions i started thinking for the best possible solution for my room. I spoke with the constructor of the building and the floor can handle 175 kilo’s a square meter. That is not enough for a big concrete floor. After searching the sites of kinetics and cdm uk i found a floor construction with 5 cm concrete on lewis steal plates.     http://www.cdm-uk.co.uk/CDM-UK_PDS/Building/Floor/BBC_Worksh ops.pdf       http://www.reppel.nl/lewis.html?gclid=COmKqLvU36MCFQEs3godHy IgBQ

On such a the floor i wanted to build the walls with metal studs, two layers off 1.25 cm drywall with greenglue between them, and 10 cm rock or glass wool, an airgap and then the existing walls. To spare weight i wanted to use isoclips to hang the ceiling, two layers off 1.25 cm drywall.

What do you  think of this idea? Do you have build such ”thin” floors?

Best regards,

Peter



I didn't look at your links, but 5 cm concrete is already ~95kg/m
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Thomas Jouanjean
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PeterDraaisma

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Re: A leightweight floating concrete floor
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2010, 07:04:12 pm »

Hi Thomas,

Thanks for the reply:-),

Please look at the links,you will see the floor construction of the cdm-iso-lat http://www.cdm.be/documents/pdfs/cdm-iso-lat.pdf .

I intend to use light concrete(B
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sui-city

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Re: A leightweight floating concrete floor
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2010, 08:12:47 am »

PeterDraaisma wrote on Fri, 03 September 2010 01:04

Hi Thomas,

Thanks for the reply:-),

Please look at the links,you will see the floor construction of the cdm-iso-lat http://www.cdm.be/documents/pdfs/cdm-iso-lat.pdf .

I intend to use light concrete(B
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PeterDraaisma

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Re: A leightweight floating concrete floor
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2010, 06:00:34 pm »

Hi Sui-City,

The total floor is 20,71 m2, the total mass that the floor can handle 3500kg with a factor of 1,3 so the max. will be 4550kg.

I hope it is possible to isolate the room without a very heavy construction.

I hope that this will answer your question.

Thanks,

Peter
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Thomas Jouanjean

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Re: A leightweight floating concrete floor
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2010, 06:56:17 pm »

sui-city wrote on Tue, 07 September 2010 07:12



Have you looked at Getzner's Sylomer Elastomer?


Good advice there.

Three / four brands to look at in Europe:

-Gretzner with Sylomer series
-BSW with Regufoam series
-AMC Mecanocaucho (note so it's clear: we work with them a lot as we import their stuff to the Benelux... They are partners of Gretzner too since they use Sylomer in a lot of their stuff)
-Merford noise control

@ Peter: forget green-glue for now, it won't save you. You need the basics of mass-air-mass properly covered first. Green Glue is only a way to make the system work better in some situations. It comes second to a healthy plan.


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Thomas Jouanjean
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PeterDraaisma

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Re: A leightweight floating concrete floor
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2010, 04:21:56 pm »

Hallo Thomas,

I always thought that the use of greenglue would have the effect of doubling the mass.

What would be the best approach for my home studio, within the limits of my room.

(I know that i need a big floating floor, but I can't:-(, that is why I thought about a thin floating concrete floor as basis for the metal stud drywall walls). Cause I suppose it would be better than a wooden floating floor.

best regards,

Peter
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Thomas Jouanjean

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Re: A leightweight floating concrete floor
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2010, 06:50:19 am »

PeterDraaisma wrote on Wed, 08 September 2010 15:21

I always thought that the use of greenglue would have the effect of doubling the mass.


Don't count on that.

Have a proper classical system designed first, then use green glue as an extra if budget allows and if the conditions are such that it will be efficient. Which isn't always so obvious.

PeterDraaisma wrote on Wed, 08 September 2010 15:21



What would be the best approach for my home studio, within the limits of my room.


Have you considered hiring a local acoustician to make a few measurements and estimate what would be the extra soundproofing needs? That would help in defining what can be and if it can be done.

Regards,
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Thomas Jouanjean
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PeterDraaisma

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Re: A leightweight floating concrete floor
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2010, 03:14:37 pm »

Cause i have to work within the limits of my house i have the intention to use metal studs instead of wood studs with two of three layers of drywall. I suppose you mean with classical system a wood stud wall-system as described in build it like the pro's.

If I measure with an db-meter in my room and by the neighbours listing to music at the same volume, will this give an indication about the amount of isolation is required?
I informed for an acoustical measurement but that is about 1500 euro and i don't have the budget to work with an pro designer.
And i think that the conclusion will be bad:-( and that I need as much isolation that is possible.I understand that a pro like you work with measurements but i have to do it with reason and logical thinking.

After all the reading I have done I know, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that a good floating floor is the bases for a good room in a room design.

So I would like to know if there is experience here on the forum with relatively light floating concrete floors. I would be nice if I could get some directions here on the forum.

Best regards,

Peter

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Thomas Jouanjean

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Re: A leightweight floating concrete floor
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2010, 07:28:39 am »

PeterDraaisma wrote on Thu, 09 September 2010 14:14

Cause i have to work within the limits of my house i have the intention to use metal studs instead of wood studs with two of three layers of drywall. I suppose you mean with classical system a wood stud wall-system as described in build it like the pro's.


Classical system means M-A-M system + decoupling. The way you build it will vary. Wood or studs, neither one is more pro than the other really.

PeterDraaisma wrote on Thu, 09 September 2010 14:14

I understand that a pro like you work with measurements but i have to do it with reason and logical thinking.


We use a fair bit of that too  Very Happy

PeterDraaisma wrote on Thu, 09 September 2010 14:14

 After all the reading I have done I know, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that a good floating floor is the bases for a good room in a room design.


Yes, absolutely.

PeterDraaisma wrote on Thu, 09 September 2010 14:14

So I would like to know if there is experience here on the forum with relatively light floating concrete floors. I would be nice if I could get some directions here on the forum.


"Lightweight" is a moving scale. The big issue with your project is admissible load + weight repartition. There isn't much more I can tell you. Floating is really the easy part of studio design. But it has requirements. The laws of physics say you need a certain weight to make it work with regards to your needs, nobody can change that.

Maybe this could've worked well - its a "light system" - but the minimum concrete thickness has to be 82mm (without finish surface)... Which means close to 200kg/m
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Thomas Jouanjean
Northward Acoustics - Engineering and Designs
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PeterDraaisma

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Re: A lightweight floating concrete floor
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2010, 05:02:44 pm »

Hi Thomas,

Thanks again for the info!

I was wondering if this floating floor will be springy, should i build separate decoupled walls, so the floor can move independent from the construction. I all ready decided to hang the ceiling to spare weight on the floor-surface.(yes I will check with the constructor;- Very Happy )

When I spoke with him last time he said that close to the concrete wall, the floor can handle much more weight. So i could make the wall next to the neighbours heavier(more layers of  drywall) And make the concrete floor a "little" heavier.

What do think about this?

Best regards,

Peter

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