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[laptoppop]

I've got a decent little collection of budget microphones - dynamic, condensor - LD and SD, etc... but I sometimes see folks talking about PZM microphones.

What would a PZM microphone be good for?  When would I want to use it?  Whats a good cheap one?  I see some folks talking about RadioShack ones -- are there old and new ones, or would any of the ones on Ebay be the same -- how can I tell?

Thanks much,
-lee-

[LanceSexington]

Ive heard that Alan Parsons uses them for overheads...I have a pair of modified Radio shack ones I bought for $30 for the pair...they are modded to use Phantom power, and the plate is now a 1'x1' plexiglass, and the little screen is removed.

[aZidjunky]

well, i read/heard people are using PZM in bassdrums at live events, also in pianos. they are alleged to have a quite linear frequency response and deliver natural sounds.
dunno anything studio vice concerning PZMs, but i guess they also get used there...
yea PZM also have higher output levels than regular mics due to that pressure zone effect,ya know

[John Ivan]

I've used them over the drum kit and they worked great. I've also used them in the room for rock guitar {mono} and they have a sound for sure. Nothing wrong with having a pair around.

Ivan.........

[Warhead]

Years ago I had great success with a Radio Shack / Crown PZM ($60) on kick drum. I removed the back plate and grabbed it with a spring clip and pointed it at the beater. It was a very unique kick drum sound.

Now you're making me want another...

War

[gtoledo3]

Besides what has been mentioned, they can be great on acoustic guitar, piano, and vocals... actually, especially vocals.

A PZM, if it works for the song, can really give you the image of the player/singer being right in front of you. There is something a little fascinating about them, to me... in their "realistic" (forgive the pun) nature.

The best mod you can do to a pzm, IMO, is to actually not use it as a pzm, ie don't attach it to the plate... just use it like a regular microphone. That way you won't get all of the comb filtering... but sometimes that can be good too.

[laptoppop]

Thanks for the replies, but I guess I'm still not getting it.  Please pardon my ignorance.

How would the sound of a PZM compare to a LD diaphram condensor?  To an SD?  to a MD (I call the 3/4" 603 a MD)?  To a ribbon microphone?  To a tube microphone?  To a SM57?

In other words, in my pallette of microphones, when would I reach for the PZM?  Should I buy one to add to my collection?

I've got a very reasonable collection of bottom-feeder microphones:
SP C1
2 SP B1
2 SP C4
2 MXL 603
2 Behringer ECM8000
MXL 69
2 MXL 67
ATM 25 (kick)
5 SM57
3 SM58
Octava Ribbon
Shure SM7b

so... what would a PZM add to this?  Which one should I get?  Is it worth it?  I want to have a cheap, but solid collection to record a wide variety of material.

Thanks much,
-lee-

[Dan Pockrus]

As long as the player's movements aren't too extreme, they also work great hung from a lanyard around the neck of a percussionist.

-- Dan --

[dnafe]

I used a pair on a 142 leslie with good results, granted we weren't looking for a killer "B" sound.

Don

[12345]

They're good for orchestras...used to record some classical and jazz ensembles with them.  

Comb filtering can be avoided...  you need a pattern that doesn't interfere with the plexi (or whatever you have it mounted to)...  The comb filtering comes from "bounceback."  The good ones already account for this.  

They're also fun because you can transfer the sound properties of the medium they're mounted on into the recording...so very flexible.  

Sound tends to be "thick..."  It's a matched-phase response off the boundary, so you can imagine a "full" sound.  Part of the sound comes from zero-velocity of a fluid off of a stationary object...so the "boundary layer condition" really translates into the microphone.  This princple of Fluid Dynamics is an interesting application of sound pressure levels into microphones.  

I've never really considered them for near-micing but I suppose it could work.  I think of them as allowing you to mic far away, and then "suck the room sound back into the mic."

My World

[hargerst]

laptoppop wrote on Fri, 20 August 2004 23:44

Thanks for the replies, but I guess I'm still not getting it.  Please pardon my ignorance. How would the sound of a PZM compare to a LD diaphram condensor?  To an SD?  to a MD (I call the 3/4" 603 a MD)?  To a ribbon microphone?  To a tube microphone?  To a SM57? In other words, in my pallette of microphones, when would I reach for the PZM?  Should I buy one to add to my collection? so... what would a PZM add to this?  Which one should I get?  Is it worth it?  I want to have a cheap, but solid collection to record a wide variety of material. Thanks much, -lee-

In a nutshell, a PZM is like an omni, but working into a half a sphere. That makes them kinda directional (from the plate forward) but still retains the benefits of an omni.

[j-unplugged]

I have 2 Realistic PZM's, I just took one out and it was very low output and had some hum, it has the AA battery holder and switch in-line.  Also a stand-by switch, I guess to avoid a pop to power off?  Has a thin cable, molded end and molded to element.  Maybe this is a cheap version, I think I got them in 1985 or 6.

[hargerst]

j-unplugged wrote on Mon, 06 September 2004 13:44

I have 2 Realistic PZM's, I just took one out and it was very low output and had some hum, it has the AA battery holder and switch in-line.  Also a stand-by switch, I guess to avoid a pop to power off?  Has a thin cable, molded end and molded to element.  Maybe this is a cheap version, I think I got them in 1985 or 6.

All the possible PZM mods are located here:

http://www.itrstudio.com/pzm.html

I collected these in 1997.

[John Ivan]

j-unplugged wrote on Mon, 06 September 2004 13:44

I have 2 Realistic PZM's, I just took one out and it was very low output and had some hum, it has the AA battery holder and switch in-line.  Also a stand-by switch, I guess to avoid a pop to power off?  Has a thin cable, molded end and molded to element.  Maybe this is a cheap version, I think I got them in 1985 or 6.

Hi;

FYI, you can mod these mics for Phantom power with XLR. This improves there SPL ability and makes them more useful.

[j-unplugged]

Thanks Harvey, and Ivan, homework time.  The element is so small.  I took off the plate.  Maybe I'll take some pics of it when I start digging in.

[Dot]

For drum OH's I'll take to music stands and put the in a V shape - sort of emulating a persons head facing the drum kit. Then I'll duct tape a PZM on each stand - roughly approximating where the ears on the head would be. Gives great space and detail.

I got the idea for that technique from watching a PBS program years ago about Pierre Sprey at Mapleshade who made these stunning stereo recordings with a plexiglass pyramid with a PZM taped to either side.

I've also used PZM's taped to the wall as an aux return and fed aux sends out into the main studio through speakers for a natural room sound.

PZM's also make cool hai hat mics. Just put one on a stand smooth side down and stick it over the hat.

[PooFlinginMonkey]

Super secret mounting surface hint inside.........clicky

[Kalle Ricken]

works nicely for a theater stage with moving actors... they may even step on the mikes!
Kalle

[lynyrd]

Can anyone tell me how to modify my Radio Shack PZM to run on phantom power with an XLR? I've got one of the cheapies but hey, if all it takes is a little soldering, I would love to try this experiment!

[hargerst]

lynyrd,

Here ya go:

http://www.itrstudio.com/pzmmods.html

[lynyrd]

Thank you very much!

[Jay Ridgeway]

I love the sound of my ratshack pzm as a room mic. It's very forgiving of position... in fact I just have it thrown on the floor at the back of the room. I've also used a single pzm to mic an entire drum kit - placed on the drum riser to the left of the drum stool - for lower volume outdoor gigs.

Best $50 I ever spent.

Jay

[z]

I'm a drumming engineer and PZMs are without doubt my favourite and most used mics of my collection of over 25 microphones ranging from switchable pattern large and small condensers, R-F-T dynamics and ribbons.

I have two tandy/radio shack pzms mounted on just one of the metal back plates, so, one diaphragm on each side like ears. Pull off the pop foam protectors too for a bit more clarity.

I use them for live recording to DAT/Minidisc and also room ambience and recently recorded my group's performance consisting of 4 people, percussion, cello/guitar effects, DJ and horn player playing in a circle in the Volkerschlagtdenkmal (an enormous shrine building in Leipzig, Germany with 14 second reverb!) to Mini Disc with spectacular results...The mics were on a stand in the center of the room and the 3D sound of the recording is remarkably clean and wide...all agreed it's the most 'you are there' sound we've ever heard.

For the ultimate REAL drum sound with great balance of all the kit elements, i place them about 1-3 feet in front of the bass drum in-line with the top of the bass drum hoop which gives a great fat kit sound with a great wide cymbal sound which is not too overly bright. The toms can sound a bit distant depending on the room but fat and rounded at the same time requiring very little work in the mix when a natural drum sound is needed.

Highly recommend this technique for the fat John Bohnam and sgt peppers drum sound. Put some slow attack, fast release compression at a ratio of around 3:1-5:1 for more fatness.

By the way, they can also sound great for spoken/sung voice and instruments like upright bass and even stuck on the sound board of instruments used live like dulcimer and accordian as they are very neutral sounding and have superb clarity and dynamics. They can be a bit noisy so check out the XLR modifications possible as they ARE balanced by their very sesign, you just need to hook them up correctly.
cheers!

p.s. Check out the album "Boomerang" from 'The Creatures' (former Siouxsie and the banshees singer and drummer Budgie)
as almost all the drums were recorded in a church to analog tape with a single PZM over the kit with just an additional bass drum mic for 'thump' emphasis. A truly great sounding percussion/drum album.

[mike chafee]

The original PZM microphones were invented, hand built and sold by Ken Wahrenbach in the late 1970's.  I bought sn 23 and 24 from him and used them with a Revox A77 half track for location recording, placing them on the floor using the same placement consideration as with spaced omnis. Compared to my B&K 4134's, the absence of non linearities caused by floor reflections was obvious, and preferred. My best results were with small jazz bands, and a Billy Cobham clinic.


Most recently, I used a pair of AKG 547 boundary mic ( cardiod pattern pattern) into a Sont Dat to record a talented singer/guitarist, again , mics 6ft apart, 6 ft in front, and compared the results to AKG 414 TL 2, and 535.
Again the absence of floor bounce with the boundary mics gave a result much closer to the live sound.

Mike Chafee

[Soundbox]

z wrote on Sun, 05 June 2005 05:49

,,,,, PZMs are without doubt my favourite and most used mics of my collection,,,,,,

You should check out the Sanken and Schoeps BLM's.  

[djui5]

I use a Beta91 inside the kick combined with another mic a lot. It works very very well.

[drteeth]

quick question.....
probably no quick answer....

i'm a music tech teacher, been a foh engineer for years in uk, purely secular gigs (sorry!)
a student asked a question today that i couldn't answer
if bass frequencies have waveforms that can be measured in feet/inches (ok.....metres etc..) , how do headphones reproduce them with the limited airspace between the "driver" and your eardrum?..
thanks
joel
ps yes, this student is just as precocious as he sounds....should go far......

[Scott Helmke (Scodiddly)]

drteeth wrote on Fri, 17 June 2005 18:56

quick question..... probably no quick answer.... i'm a music tech teacher, been a foh engineer for years in uk, purely secular gigs (sorry!) a student asked a question today that i couldn't answer if bass frequencies have waveforms that can be measured in feet/inches (ok.....metres etc..) , how do headphones reproduce them with the limited airspace between the "driver" and your eardrum?.. thanks joel ps yes, this student is just as precocious as he sounds....should go far......

Probably this ought to be a new thread.

However, you might throw it back at the student - how can you hear low frequencies even in a small room?  The answer is that it's about air pressure changes over time, not about somehow fitting a wavelength between the speaker and your ears.

[drteeth]

thanks scott

[Dale Ulan]

It can work on 5-string banjo (played Scruggs style) in a nice room too. I've used them for choir recordings, where they work pretty well but watch that room - it really captures the natural reverb. It's really too easy to get way too much room reverb though, especially if recording in an empty church.

It does use a small omni electret mic, so although it has a boost in sensitivity by the PZM's nature, a very small diaphragm mic like that one will often have more noise than the larger mics.

[MusicEuphony]

Sometimes PZM mics can be used to get places you couldn't stick a normal mic.  For instance there was an electric harpsicord with a clear plastic top on it which had to be on there for it to play right, so the engineer just taped some PZM mics to the inside of the plastic top (though the duct tape he used left marks on the top *wince*).  I've seen 'em used in kick drums also along w/ normal mics

[daQuad]

On the radio shack ones, if you cut the output cable nice and flush to the body, you can thow them like a shuriken and embed them in a drummer's adams apple, greatly enhancing yur recording experience.

cf

[Larrchild]

In the 70's, PZM's and Time Alignment of loudspeakers were both offshoots of the then new science of Time Domain Spectrometry.

For the first time, folks could look at frequency response over varying time windows. And the first thing they saw, was that things that looked pretty flat in steady-state noise and sweep tests were full of combs and nulls. Eek!

TDS prompted us to put our speaker drivers in accoustic alignment, and made us think that if we made everything bounce off a plate first before being mic'd, we could remove the combing from mics too.

How do they compare? Well, they have a place in your golfbag of mics. Everyone has given good uses here,no doubt.

I've heard them taped to piano lids sounding good. Room mics, ....or in essence, anywhere you don't need the "Showbiz" of a tube-47 etc, but want clarity/  hows that?