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[ATOR]

Whadoyathink aboudit?


You only have to comment on the masters in your group.

Group 1
User names starting with A-G

Group 2
User names starting with H-Z

[Gregg Janman]

Sounds good to me!

[philip]

For those who want's to listen at the same level and don't have the time to match theme selves here is a fun little program: http://www.tolvan.com/masvis/masvis.exe
Doesn't read aiff though. (resave as wav)

Disclaimer: I'm on vacation and is using crappy laptop with Sennheiser eh350 headphones so there might be nuances that I'm not aware of.
 
The first thing that struck me was how very similar most of the masters were played back at the same volume. It seem that most of the participants have a similar (minimalistic?) approach to mastering, and some other have done a different thing, changing the sound more drastic. (nothing wrong with that as long as the client is happy)

I'll report back after listening to my group again.

[UnderTow]

I just uploaded mine. I hope I am not too late!  

Alistair

[KAyo]

I am even worse off here! Big bu bu
Actually uploaded the wrong master altogether... [one, of a set of three dither trials]

Been fuming about it all day, I have, I assure you. But, did not want to change it without asking the group for permission to do so first. Rules are rules and they apply to all. Period!. Nonetheless, I'd much prefer my actual master up there.

Ciao'
KAyo

[ATOR]

I'm not gonna bend the rules too much.

Alistair is lucky we made groups by first letter of the user-name so he's in a group, worst case scenario is some early down-loaders haven't got his master.

Updating an uploaded master is gonna get messy (did you comment on version 1 or 2?). I'm not gonna go there.


Part of mastering is making the deadline and (double-)checking the master you send out. It's all in the game and the wump reflects that.

[Matt_G]

KAyo wrote on Thu, 22 July 2010 02:06

I am even worse off here! Big bu bu Actually uploaded the wrong master altogether... [one, of a set of three dither trials]

So it's essentially the same master with one of 3 different dither settings?

[KAyo]

Matt_G wrote on Wed, 21 July 2010 20:38

KAyo wrote on Thu, 22 July 2010 02:06 I am even worse off here! Big bu bu Actually uploaded the wrong master altogether... [one, of a set of three dither trials] So it's essentially the same master with one of 3 different dither settings?

Yup.. same master, wrong dither, which destroys the taste of the wine completely.. Dither can be so indulgent, that getting it wrong, can break the camels back, and it has here, well.., at least in my picky book, it has. I tend to use the MD3, but instead, also tried some native dithers just for test purposes and then went on to rename the wrong one, and uploaded it. Just browns and smears the whole thing all wrong Matt. A very, very late night working error. @#^^*^. Learnt something here. I am still festering over it, believe you me.

And, I understand ATOR, thus sticking with the error, and wearing it..

Ciao'
KAyo

[Podgorny]

KAyo wrote on Wed, 21 July 2010 21:55

I am still festering over it, believe you me.

Consider yourself lucky to make mistakes on throw-away gigs.
Lessons are harder learned when the client is watching.

[Podgorny]

Herbeck
What's with the noise at the beginning, and not trimming the start time?
I like this one.  But it almost feels farther back in the speakers than the others. Perhaps just a little dark. Not really sure.  

JCMastering
Low end feels right. Maybe a bit much 3k? It sounds exciting.  I like that. Soundstage is nice and wide. This might be my first choice.

KAyo
There's like a 100Hz hum at the beginning. And again with the start time
Lacking in impact. Way too much low end. Sorry man, not digging it.

LudwigM -0.3dBFS (-12.5)
Noise + click and the beginning, didn't trim intro.
Seems a little unexciting. Lacking top end, perhaps? Low end is a little unruly.

MC
A little over-zealous with the start time.  If I'm working sending out a single (as opposed to a full record), I find it's good to add a good quarter or half-second to the front of the track, as some listening devices will take a moment to begin producing sound.  Same goes for the first song on a record.  wondering why the track peaks so low?
Track is pretty dark for my tastes.  Works for the genre though.

Podgorny
I master like a recording engineer! Perhaps a little heavy-handed in the manipulation? I'm looking forward to hearing what some real mastering engineers think of this ham-fisted mastering job.

MGMaster -0.3dBFS (-10.1)
I like the top end.  Low end is a little on the big side. Not by much

OTR
No dither?
Balance is very similar to previous track, though it seems to have some more width in the hi-mids. I like this one.

PeterBeckman
More 100Hz
Missing some of the impact of the kick Perhaps a little too much sub-low?

philip
I hate to be a stickler for start times... and also, no dither again?
Missing some of that midrange excitement. Low end feels good. Soundstage is a little narrow.

patrikt
Feels pretty balanced. Low end feels in control. Decent impact. I'd take it.


So that's my opinion - as an engineer/mixer. I've got decent monitoring, but not quite up to mastering-room standards.  And honestly, in my line of work, it's definitely a "broad strokes" kind of mindset, sonically speaking.  So it's been fun to put on a different hat and try to REALLY scrutinize some minor differences.  Doing this more often would no-doubt help my mixing skills.  I guess that's sort of a disclaimer.

Closing thoughts:  Cool song.  Good mix.  Certainly didn't need much.  It was also interesting to see  how similar some of the entries were, and just how different they could be.  Makes me think I might have to do a mastering engineer shoot-out on the project I'm currently producing... or I'll just go back to Brad. Haha. Speaking of Brad, why no submission?

About dither, KAyo made mention of what noise shaping he used.  Do you guys usually go through various shapes until you feel it complements the material, or just go with one? What is it that you're looking for in dither? My understanding is that you choose a shape that is less noticeable in the context of the music, and that makes sense.  It just seems to me that something THAT low in level is unlikely to make a large impact on the material, but hey, what do I know?

Also, I noticed a number of entries in my group didn't set off my peak meter.  Is there some reason for NOT utilizing every last bit of peak headroom?  It seems to me that if you've achieved a level of sound and impact that you like, all you're doing is robbing yourself of 0.3dB of loudness.  Or is there some other reason?

Lastly, I thought that all the submissions were listenable, but IMHO some guys missed the target with the technical requirements of a master.  As far as I understood, we were supposed to submit files as if they were going to production, and there's no way some of these are ready.

Anyway, I had fun. Thanks to whoever supplied this track. Nice job.

[Gregg Janman]

I've listened to all in my group, and like Podgorny said, it was very interesting to see just how similar, and how different, some of the masters were.

I'm just going to be honest, so without further ado...

AndreasN - A lot of power there, very full sound, but a little too limited for my taste, I could really hear it hitting the ceiling.

AivoryUK - Sounding well balanced here, nice and open on top.

Ator - LOUD but really nice sounding, one of my faves, you really got the bass to kick nicely, which was one of the requests I believe.

Biig Niick - Something sounding a little wrong in the top end for me, not sure how to put it, a little phasey, or too much dip in the upper mids?

Chris Adler - Nice master, no complaints. Your limiter ceiling was set lower than others, any reason why?

Chris Doremus - As above, nice sound, no complaints.

Dalton Brand - My least favourite of the bunch, very processed, noisy and scooped sounding, I don't know what went wrong here. The hi-hats sounded wrong. Too heavy a hand I reckon.

Fuse - Really liked how natural and warm sounding you got it, lovely bass. Another of my faves.

GertVanHoof - Very nice, even balance, no complaints.

Graham Headley - Sorry, but way too over crushed for me, I could really hear that limiter distorting in a nasty way on the transients.

Gregg Janman - Well, mine was definitely on the quieter side compared to a lot of the others. I'd like feedback on whether people think I should be making it a little louder. Be straight with me, I can take as good as I give!

Ator's and Fuse's were my favourite sounding overall.

I agree it was a well mixed track and didn't need a lot of work. Another thank you to the artist/mixer.

P.S. Are we supposed to list exactly what we did now, or after some discussion?

[Patrik T]

KAyo wrote on Thu, 22 July 2010 04:55

And, I understand ATOR, thus sticking with the error, and wearing it.

There is something about your entry, in the lower end, that overshadows any choice of dither (including forgetting to dither) so I would not worry about this at all if I was you.


Regards
Patrik

[Adler]

Gregg Janman wrote on Thu, 22 July 2010 03:00

I've listened to all in my group, and like Podgorny said, it was very interesting to see just how similar, and how different, some of the masters were. I'm just going to be honest, so without further ado... Chris Adler - Nice master, no complaints. Your limiter ceiling was set lower than others, any reason why?

Gregg,

The output of my limiter was set to -0.3 dBfs...that's pretty much standard for me.

Thanks,
Chris

[Gregg Janman]

Coolio, that makes sense. I usually have mine set to 0.1 dBFS, but sometimes I'll still get inter-sample peaks after dithering down, so will set it lower.

[KAyo]

Patrik T wrote on Thu, 22 July 2010 05:43

KAyo wrote on Thu, 22 July 2010 04:55 And, I understand ATOR, thus sticking with the error, and wearing it. There is something about your entry, in the lower end, that overshadows any choice of dither (including forgetting to dither) so I would not worry about this at all if I was you. Regards Patrik

True.. as the MD3 does more than just dither, which itself changes the master considerably, which is the effect I wanted to present. Plus, the native dither FinalPlug being tested, had a -6db sitting on its threshold on CD curve, and thus abandoned etc. The mistake lies in feckless motions in renaming the wrong file. In that action lies the dunder head

I hope to give you a listen, at some point later, just for conversation sake. Thanks.

Ciao'
KAyo