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Author Topic: JBL 4412 or 4411?  (Read 7930 times)

Adam The Truck Driver

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JBL 4412 or 4411?
« on: July 11, 2010, 09:48:49 pm »

I've a chance to get a pair of good working JBL's, passive, 4411s or 4412s, not sure which yet as I've not seen them, but for $200.00, could I possibly go wrong?

Also might get an Altec amp for another $50.00, in working order. Don't know the model number, but it is an older model, yet unseen, unheard, but working.

Buddy of mine has them, but he doesn't know what the model numbers are. Just wondering should I just pull the trigger?

EDIT: Will get more info on model #s and hear them shortly, before I buy them.

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Adam Brown

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Fletcher

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Re: JBL 4412 or 4411?
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2010, 02:06:44 am »

I'm not as familiar with them as 4311's... but worst case scenario they'll make nice speakers for the living room or the lounge if they don't send your mixes in the direction you'd like them to go.

I'd recommend giving them a good bit of power... like 250w / side minimum.

Peace.
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.  
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

Jim Williams

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Re: JBL 4412 or 4411?
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2010, 10:22:53 am »

4411's are sort of odd ducks, old aluminum tweeter. The 4412 went with the new titanium tweeter with the "dimples". The designer told me those tweeters have up to 10% THD on axis, go 10 degrees off and it improves.

If you examine the frequency response curve you will see a roll off at 50 hz. This is because the cabinet volume is too small to project the lower frequencies. It is the same size box as the 4311's. If you look at the 4410 curves, they have deeper bass response as they have the same sized box but a smaller driver that's better tuned to it.

The 44 series are 1 pole tweeter crossovers, the A versions with the grey boxes used a 2 pole design with the fixed titanium tweeters with the smooth surface.

I have 4408's in the family room, 4408A's in the control room with a 15" subwoofer. Clean those crossovers up and they are first rate.
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Jim Williams
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Fletcher

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Re: JBL 4412 or 4411?
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2010, 03:09:28 am »

Jim - what would you suggest to clean up the cross overs?
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.  
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

Jim Williams

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Re: JBL 4412 or 4411?
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2010, 10:26:31 am »

A pull and replace option works great with these. I rebuilt them with premium components. I used MIT MultiCaps for the LF drivers and InfiniCaps for the tweeter. Those were also bypassed with .01 uf InfiniCaps for air.

The square white sand resistors were replaced with Mill MR-12's, those are precision wirewound resistors, non-inductive.

The LF coil remains, but the HF inductor was replaced with an Alpha copper foil inductor. All of these parts are available from Michael Percy Audio in CA. Be prepared to pay. I paid $240 each for the 4408A's new, I have about $200 of crossover parts in each one, highly worthwhile to me.
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Jim Williams
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Fletcher

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Re: JBL 4412 or 4411?
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2010, 08:50:23 am »

Sounds like its not too terrible a project... maybe a bit spendy, but most probably worth the dosh.  I've heard more than a few JBL's with their crossovers redone and they were MUCH better than stock.

Just curious, if you were to do the mod, could someone just pull the X-overs and send them or would you want the whole cabinet / drivers?
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.  
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

Jim Williams

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Re: JBL 4412 or 4411?
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2010, 11:10:34 am »

Just the crossover board needs to be reworked. Those can be removed if you are careful. Some of their tweeters have fragile spade lug terminals, I've seen them break off when someone attempted to remove the wire/lugs from them. I usually recommend desoldering the wires from tweeter to the the crossover board to avoid that.

The assembly can be challenging as the 2 pole A versions require you to assemble the parts in a certain order to fit it all in. Those caps are very large, about 1 1/2" diameter. The board needs to be drilled out to fit the copper tape inductor leads. You have to use hot glue to keep it all from vibrating.

In as the JBL drivers are first rate, it's always been the cheap crossover parts that have kept them for revealing their true capability. Insides you will find cheap bipolar electrolytic caps from Tecate Industries in old Mexico, the same border town here that brews the beer.

They make better beer than capacitors.
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Jim Williams
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Adam The Truck Driver

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Re: JBL 4412 or 4411?
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2010, 11:56:26 pm »

I still haven't had time to get by for a close inspection of the JBL's or the Altec amp. I was figuring to run the JBL speakers on the Altec amp, but I'm not for sure it's going to be that much power. the amp is a 2U or 3U rack size, but I think it is something less than 100w per channel. IMBW. I will try to find time later this week, or sometime this weekend.

Jim, I would be interested in your XO upgrades at some point fersher, if they are a drastic improvement to SQ.

This buddy of mine is frequently finding these deals, so I told him you find a Hafler 9505 for cheap, get it. What would be a suitable, good sounding amp for these JBL's that I won't need to mortgage the house for, if the Altec doesn't make magic with them?
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Adam Brown

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Fletcher

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Re: JBL 4412 or 4411?
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2010, 03:50:21 am »

Adam - it would seem to me that if you can land on these things for these prices it would be absolutely in your best interest to do so... if for no other reason than you'll be able to turn a profit even if you hate them and decide to sell them.

Peace.
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.  
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

Jim Williams

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Re: JBL 4412 or 4411?
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2010, 10:45:59 am »

Adam The Truck Driver wrote on Wed, 14 July 2010 20:56

 What would be a suitable, good sounding amp for these JBL's that I won't need to mortgage the house for, if the Altec doesn't make magic with them?


Adcom GFA 555 Mk 1. Get them for about $300 used. I have found no better amp/value. 250 watts per side is plenty. No fans, quiet operation.

Everyone that has switched says the same thing, Adcom amps are the best for under $5000.
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Jim Williams
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Michael Brebes

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Re: JBL 4412 or 4411?
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2010, 03:44:58 pm »

I have a pair of 4411's that I replaced the tweeters with the titanium ones for the 4412.  Drive them with my old Hafler 500.
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