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Author Topic: Worst Environmental Disaster Ever?  (Read 15925 times)

Berolzheimer

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster Ever?
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2010, 02:29:35 pm »

Brad, that chart is from a week ago.
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fiasco ( P.M.DuMont )

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster Ever?
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2010, 02:36:34 pm »

Jay Kadis wrote on Thu, 13 May 2010 13:52


Maybe Joe Sixpack will finally realize he doesn't need an F-250 to haul his groceries.




I'm sorry, can a Prius tow my boat?
I guess that will be a luxury only for the elite, you know, like Al Gore.

I'm pretty sure I won't be able to haul a ton of dirt, mulch, wood, etc. in a sub compact either.

Or does someone get to decide for me if I qualify for a truck?

I get as good mileage as most mini vans... f#ckin' soccer moms!

Not lashing out a you Jay.
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bblackwood

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster Ever?
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2010, 02:38:03 pm »

Berolzheimer wrote on Thu, 13 May 2010 13:29

Brad, that chart is from a week ago.

OK.

Doesn't change much.
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Brad Blackwood
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Jay Kadis

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster Ever?
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2010, 02:45:35 pm »

Fiasco wrote on Thu, 13 May 2010 11:36

Jay Kadis wrote on Thu, 13 May 2010 13:52


Maybe Joe Sixpack will finally realize he doesn't need an F-250 to haul his groceries.




I'm sorry, can a Prius tow my boat?
I guess that will be a luxury only for the elite, you know, like Al Gore.

I'm pretty sure I won't be able to haul a ton of dirt, mulch, wood, etc. in a sub compact either.

Or does someone get to decide for me if I qualify for a truck?

I get as good mileage as most mini vans... f#ckin' soccer moms!

Not lashing out a you Jay.

Oh, I know that.  But there seem to be a whole lot of F-250s at the grocery store without trailer hitches.  Of course there are legitimate uses for these vehicles, but they are more appropriate for construction sites than mall parking lots.

BTW, my Sienna gets 27 mpg hiway - does your truck?

bblackwood

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster Ever?
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2010, 02:54:49 pm »

Jay Kadis wrote on Thu, 13 May 2010 13:45

Oh, I know that.  But there seem to be a whole lot of F-250s at the grocery store without trailer hitches.  Of course there are legitimate uses for these vehicles, but they are more appropriate for construction sites than mall parking lots.

Yah, and SUVs EVERYWHRERE.

Quote:

BTW, my Sienna gets 27 mpg hiway - does your truck?


My truck doesn't (about 22MPG highway), but it can sure haul a heck of lot more stuff than your Sienna can.

The wife's Odyssey gets close to 27MPG highway.
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Brad Blackwood
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fiasco ( P.M.DuMont )

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster Ever?
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2010, 02:59:20 pm »

I get around 22 as well.

Not incredible, but not horrible either.
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Philip

Jay Kadis

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster Ever?
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2010, 05:10:20 pm »

bblackwood wrote on Thu, 13 May 2010 11:54


My truck doesn't (about 22MPG highway), but it can sure haul a heck of lot more stuff than your Sienna can.

The wife's Odyssey gets close to 27MPG highway.
I had an S-10 V6 that never got more than 18 mpg because the smog control system only worked correctly for 6 weeks of the 25 years I had it.  The Sienna carries all the gear I now need to transport even when it rains.

Berolzheimer

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster Ever?
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2010, 05:20:57 pm »

bblackwood wrote on Thu, 13 May 2010 11:38

Berolzheimer wrote on Thu, 13 May 2010 13:29

Brad, that chart is from a week ago.

OK.

Doesn't change much.


Except that in that time 35,000 to 175,000 more barrels of oil have leaked out.
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bblackwood

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster Ever?
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2010, 05:21:44 pm »

Berolzheimer wrote on Thu, 13 May 2010 16:20

bblackwood wrote on Thu, 13 May 2010 11:38

Berolzheimer wrote on Thu, 13 May 2010 13:29

Brad, that chart is from a week ago.

OK.

Doesn't change much.


Except that in that time 35,000 to 175,000 more barrels of oil have leaked out.


Yah, but it's still a small fraction compared to the big spills, that's my point.
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Brad Blackwood
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bblackwood

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster Ever?
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2010, 05:22:12 pm »

Jay Kadis wrote on Thu, 13 May 2010 16:10

bblackwood wrote on Thu, 13 May 2010 11:54


My truck doesn't (about 22MPG highway), but it can sure haul a heck of lot more stuff than your Sienna can.

The wife's Odyssey gets close to 27MPG highway.
I had an S-10 V6 that never got more than 18 mpg because the smog control system only worked correctly for 6 weeks of the 25 years I had it.  The Sienna carries all the gear I now need to transport even when it rains.


Yah, shocking that GM went bankrupt.
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Brad Blackwood
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Podgorny

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster Ever?
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2010, 05:35:58 pm »

Berolzheimer wrote on Thu, 13 May 2010 13:29

Brad, that chart is from a week ago.



Depending on estimates, the Deepwater Horizon spill has, so far, dumped between 15,000 and 90,000 tonnes of oil.  (Most seem to agree on the more conservative estimate.)



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MDM,

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster Ever?
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2010, 07:27:18 pm »

so they've already made sure that the platform fell exactly on top of the drill-hole?

the currents down there didn't make much of a difference, I guess.
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Edvaard

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster Ever?
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2010, 07:42:18 pm »


Quote:

Depending on estimates ...



Indeed.


This is just from wiki, but still;


BP originally estimated up to 1,000 barrels (42,000 US gal) a day was leaking from the wellhead.[58]  On April 28, NOAA said that the rate was probably five times that initially estimated by BP, i.e. 5,000 barrels (210,000 US gal).[59][60]  John Amos, a geologist who has worked as a consultant with oil companies on measuring oil spills, said that figure is the “extremely low end” of their estimates, putting a more realistic figure at 20,000 barrels a day.[61][62]  Other sources using satellite imagery have put that number as high as 25,000 barrels (1,100,000 US gal) a day.[58][63]  According to BP, estimating the flow is very difficult, as there is no metering of the flow underwater.[60]  In their permit filed with the MMS, BP quotes a worst case daily discharge of 162,000 US gallons (3,900 bbl) per day.[64]  Before Congress, they revised this figure upwards to 60,000 barrels (2,500,000 US gal) per day.[65]


Ian MacDonald, an oceanography specialist at Florida State University, estimated that oil might be leaking at a rate of 25,000 barrels (1,100,000 US gal) a day and that the oil slick as of May 2, 2010, might already contain more than 9,000,000 US gallons (210,000 bbl).[72]  He later estimated the spill to be about 12,000,000 US gallons (290,000 bbl).[73]  The Wall Street Journal  suggests that the oil may be leaking at 1,000,000 US gallons (24,000 bbl) per day, reaching nearly 100,000,000 US gallons (2,400,000 bbl) in 90 days, when the spill is expected to be capped, ...


Just so everybody knows what to throw into the calculator;

One tonne (metric ton) = 308 US gals. = 7.33 bbl

All this aside from the fact that proximity to coastline and the particular environment there make for a large difference in actual impact or damage. Some of the largest spills were, fortunately, ~700 knots from shore.

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ssltech

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster Ever?
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2010, 08:55:40 pm »

Yup...

Just a minor nit-pick on my part... Isn't a knot a measure of speed? -I assume you mean 'nautical miles'

Keith
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Berolzheimer

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster Ever?
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2010, 09:06:43 pm »

bblackwood wrote on Thu, 13 May 2010 14:21

Berolzheimer wrote on Thu, 13 May 2010 16:20

bblackwood wrote on Thu, 13 May 2010 11:38

Berolzheimer wrote on Thu, 13 May 2010 13:29

Brad, that chart is from a week ago.

OK.

Doesn't change much.


Except that in that time 35,000 to 175,000 more barrels of oil have leaked out.


Yah, but it's still a small fraction compared to the big spills, that's my point.


Maybe not:
https://preview.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12 6809525&sc=nl&cc=brk-20100513-1917

" The U.S. Coast Guard has estimated that oil was gushing from a broken pipe on the Gulf floor at the rate of 5,000 barrels a day.

But sophisticated scientific analysis of seafloor video made available Wednesday by the oil company BP shows that the true figure is closer to 70,000 barrels a day, NPR's Richard Harris reports.

That means the oil spilling into the Gulf has already far exceeded the equivalent of the 1989 Exxon Valdez tanker accident in Alaska, which spilled at least 250,000 barrels of oil.

The analysis was conducted by Steve Wereley, an associate professor at Purdue University, using a technique called particle image velocimetry. Harris tells Michele Norris that the method is accurate to a degree of plus or minus 20 percent. That means the flow could range between 56,000 barrels a day and 84,000 barrels a day.

Another analysis by Eugene Chiang, a professor of astrophysics at the University of California, Berkeley, calculated the rate of flow to be between 20,000 barrels a day and 100,000 barrels a day. "
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A bunch of songs I've recorded and/or mixed are here:
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