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[mixwell]

Wait......

Which Mackie Mixer has two paths per channel?

[Podgorny]

The Mackie 8-Bus (the one everyone refers to when they say "mackie") was inline.

[Fletcher]

Are you sure its "inline", I thought it was Mic or Line but not both at the same time [which would be "inline"]

[tom eaton]

It was inline, a 32 in has 64 inputs plus aux returns (and bus inserts if you really need them) available at the mix.

It's been a long time since I had one, but I know I used all 64 inputs on my 32.

t

[Halfway Competent]

Fletcher wrote on Fri, 14 May 2010 05:47

Are you sure its "inline", I thought it was Mic or Line but not both at the same time [which would be "inline"]

Each channel had a channel input plus a tape return. The tape return could be routed through the channel by hitting the "Flip Switch", or via a barebones channel-within-a-channel, Mix B. In that way -- via Mix B -- you basically could have simultaneous mic and line inputs going.

[Barkley McKay]

Halfway Competent wrote on Fri, 14 May 2010 15:40

Fletcher wrote on Fri, 14 May 2010 05:47 Are you sure its "inline", I thought it was Mic or Line but not both at the same time [which would be "inline"] Each channel had a channel input plus a tape return. The tape return could be routed through the channel by hitting the "Flip Switch", or via a barebones channel-within-a-channel, Mix B. In that way -- via Mix B -- you basically could have simultaneous mic and line inputs going.

Same as the Toft ATB, except the "input" is called the Channel and the "tape return"  the Monitor. Both inline as an I/O "Module"

Both desks have same topology, which is almost identical to the older Soundcraft Spirit Studio.

barks

[Jim Williams]

A Toft 32 will have a lot of buss noise. That noise you can't get rid of as it's permanently assigned to the stereo mix buss from the monitor inputs. Although the main inputs can be pulled off the mix buss via the mix switch, the monitor input pan buffers are permanently assigned as the monitor mute switch is placed before it.

The other main complaint is the lack of dynamic headroom on the stereo sum amps. There is a sweet spot at 0 VU. Push it into the red and it breaks up. Lower it and the noise floor eats you up.

There are fixes that I posted on that alternative web site, you know, the one that rhymes with "earbutts". It's a complete master module modification including the sum amps, monitoring and solo.
That mod allows you to push the stereo mix hard into pegged red land without break up. THD drops to .003% at +28 dbu outputs. The noise floor also drops but is still dependent on the monitor sends. To fix that, replace IC10 on the input channels with a National LME49720NA opamp. Add a couple of 22 pf caps across the feedback resistors and a pair of .1 uf mono ceramic caps from pin's 4 and 8 to ground. That will lower the console noise several db's. Replace the rest of the 072 opamps and the total console noise is very low.

[rankus]

Here is Jim's Mod for the 2 bus as posted on the earbutts forum:

Thanks for this Jim!

Quote:

TOFT ATB MASTER SECTION MODS: I'm getting a bit tried of reworking these, that gummy RoHS solder is a pain in the a s s. So, go for it yourselves. For the master strip do this: Change C39/42 to a ferrite bead. Change C40/41 to 150 pf NPO or polyprop. Bypass C38, 43, C1, C2, C6, C7, C62, C61, C60, C59, C3, C4, C57, C58 with a wire. Also bypass C50, C49, C18, C17, C36 and C37. Add a 10 pf NPO cap across R88, R101, R13, R3, R2, R113, R122. Change C10, C15 to 22pf NPO ceramic. Change C25 and 26 to Panasonic FM 1000 uf 25V. Add 100 pf NPO ceramic cap across R144, R151, R140, R141. Change R84, R85 to 2k ohms, add a 100 pf cap across them. Change C9, C8, C5, C11, C13, C16, C34, C36 to Panasonic FM or Nichicon HE 220 uf 25 V. Bypass with Wima MKP-2 .01 uf polyprop film caps. Add local .1 uf mono cermic caps at each opamp's power inputs to ground, that's pins 4 and 8 to ground. Change IC1 to AD8512A. Change IC2, IC3, IC4, IC5 to LM6172IN. Change IC12, 12, 14, 16 and 11 to LME49720NA. That will drop that THD+noise spec to .003% at +27 dbu. CCIF IMD is even lower. It loves the red zone, it won't crap out. Elevated levels help pull the signal further from the noise floor. Stereo crosstalk improved from -58 db stock to -75 to -80 db modified on a 24 channel. The 6172 output drivers easily drive 150 ohms, the stock console with 072's cannot drive a load below 2k ohms without severe THD and level loss. 600 ohm transformer gear is easily driven with the 6172's and the headphones crank too with 100 ma output current available. The low end is flat to below 2 hz so no more phase shift. The top end bandwidth was also increased while noise was lowered. Removing 20 or so electrolytic coupling caps got the fog removed. All mods were tested and confirmed on the Audio Precision System One. It sounds better than it tests too. Enjoy. Jim Williams Audio Upgrades

[ssltech]

Fletcher wrote

I liked being able to key the onboard gates on SSL's [which you can do in a bit more cumbersome manner on the 9098i] but with the exception of the "02" version of the SSL dynamic card [VERY early "E series"] the compressors were bad copies of DBX-160X's [in this reporter's opinion] and even the "02" dynamics card was really only great in parallel for snare tracks [see "Let's Dance" &/or Bryan Adams "Reckless" for details].

There never was an '02' dynamics card, the dynamics board has always been a '10'...

The '02' was the early equaliser, which was superseded by the 142, 242 and 292 IIRC, but the only '02' was always a brown knob EQ.

The Early dynamics was a '10, but was identifiable by the different VCA: instead of a dbx single-in-line VCA, it had an Aphex-sourced B&B 1537A dual-in-line VCA.

Much of the DC sidechains remained unchanged, but the VCA had to be changed when B&B stopped supplying the 1537A.

Other than that, Fletcher may well be right, I can't say I've ever really compared, even though I have both a VERY early E-series and a few later dbx-equipped ones here.

Keith

[ssltech]

Fletcher wrote on Fri, 14 May 2010 08:47

Are you sure its "inline", I thought it was Mic or Line but not both at the same time [which would be "inline"]

Seems like it's my day to quibble and nit-pick... -sorry.

The definition of 'inline' has nothing to do with simultaneous use of the mic and line inputs; it simply defines the tape return ("monitor") path and controls and electronics as being part of the same control strip as the input path... - the track summing amp too, usually.

For what it's worth, you can't use the mic and line simultaneously on an SSL, nor a Neve VR, nor an Amek 9098i...

Inline topology often offers useful stuff like one set of aux controls which switch between input channel and monitor paths for example; EQ also, and in the case of the three examples which I mentioned, onboard dynamics also.

Sorry to be pedantic, but several people to whom I've recently spoken haven't understood the meaning of 'split monitoring' (which I think is pretty important) and it helps to keep the definition of 'inline' clear, by way of contrast.

Keith