R/E/P > Brad Blackwood
To the vinyl cutters - clipped waveform
Ben F:
Sometimes on 12" EPs my hands are tied. 1 track done elsewhere and clipped, I can't do much about it. The others I do as normal with only a small amount of limiting and headroom. It must be quite common these days with the amount of DIY clipping.
If you receive a file that has been very clipped instead of limited, how does this affect the cutting process?
TotalSonic:
Generally the thing that happens is it gets cut at a quieter level than it would otherwise need to be if it was unclipped if you want to avoid distortion on playback. How much dB difference this ends up being is totally dependent on the specific program and the cutting level being aimed for. Often the side length is dictating cutting level first - so if it's a long side this might not if fact create an issue at all.
i.e. The pre-masters I got from Bob Ludwig when I cut the Foo Fighters "In Your Honor" 4LP set were definitely clipped throughout - but because the cutting level was kept around +2dBVU at the peaks, at least 20% of the inner diameters were not used, and it was cut at 45rpm this ended up being a clean transfer (Bob's excellent eq job helped as well).
If it's a 12" DJ oriented where the client is wanting maximum possible level this can definitely effect things though. i.e. I cut masters for a Japanese special edition reissue of Wayne Wonder "No Letting Go" 12" single which had a tenor vocal that was heavily processed and then over all levels clipped on the pre-master - and there simply wasn't any way to get it to playback cleanly at the +4dBVU (or more if I could get it) levels being requested. The client thought the problem was because the cut I had done was on DMM - and had it recut on lacquer - only to have the test pressings for these come out actually sounding worst. He ended up coming back to me to recut a 3rd time - sourcing a German version of the pre-master that was a tiny bit less clipped, we did some small upper midrange cuts, and turned down the level for the whole side - and he ended up reluctantly being ok with this compromise.
So - clipped material can indeed be cut - but in my experience you can get better sound (and level) for the vinyl if it's not clipped.
Best regards,
Steve Berson
Ben F:
Thanks Steve.
It's a tough one as you know some tracks only really sound good with a bit of clipping over any other method, and there is always the super quiet (or loud)one on an EP that I have to deal with.
Is there any difference cutting do DMM over the traditional lacquer? Or do the standard headroom and not too much out of phase bass technical aspects apply?
TotalSonic:
Ben F wrote on Thu, 15 April 2010 23:09
Thanks Steve.
It's a tough one as you know some tracks only really sound good with a bit of clipping over any other method, and there is always the super quiet (or loud)one on an EP that I have to deal with.
I'd say your absolute best bet if there are any questions regarding the pre-master is to have the client get a reference acetate (aka "dub plate") made first for there approval prior to taking on the expense of lacquers, stampers and tests being made. That way if there's any issues they can be addressed first without having to spend more money and time than otherwise necessary.
Main thing is not to over think things too much - make the pre-master sound good to you, keep it on the "warm" side if you can, and it will likely translate well to vinyl.
Quote:
Is there any difference cutting do DMM over the traditional lacquer? Or do the standard headroom and not too much out of phase bass technical aspects apply?
The same issues apply. DMM in general has less pre-echo, greater high frequency definition - but tighter depth tolerances than lacquer - and there's definitely some folks who prefer lacquer over DMM - but when I was cutting (can't believe this was 5 years ago already) I never found a program that I couldn't get sounding to the client's satisfaction with it.
fwiw - the Sharon Jones & The Dap-Kings latest LP that just got released was cut to DMM at Abbey Road from 24bit/88.2kHz premasters that I made - and I think it sounds pretty darn nice!
Best regards,
Steve Berson
Gold:
I haven't found clipping in and of itself to be much of a problem. Audible distortion is a problem no matter what the cause.
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