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[PookyNMR]

bblackwood wrote on Tue, 13 April 2010 18:30

How so? No one is saying that 47% of the people of this country pay NO taxes, but when 43% of the US Gov'ts receipts come from income tax, and 47% of the people pay no income tax, well, any wonder why we are in deficit every year? There are certainly folks who need every penny to get by, but I guarantee a good percentage of those who pay no income tax have cable, big screen TV's, etc. I don't begrudge folks who need the break, but you cannot tell me 47% of this country cannot afford to pay some income taxes.

Previously we saw that the bottom 50% are working with a family income of $32k or less.  

How easy do you think it is for a family to live on that?

They may have a big TV, but likely don't take a vacation like you do, or drive a care like you do, or provide an education for their children like you can, etc, etc, etc.

I don't begrudge someone for spending $1k on a TV when all they can afford to do is watch TV.

[Edvaard]

Quote:

There are certainly folks who need every penny to get by, but I guarantee a good percentage of those who pay no income tax have cable, big screen TV's, etc.

You are certainly right on that one, more than you probably thought.


The chart showing just how many, and how much they make;








That's 748,000 people with income above $100,000 not paying any income tax, including over 6,000 individuals making more than $1Million a year not paying a penny.

Cable with all the premium channels, in fact, and one large screen rig each for the main residence, the yacht, and the vacation home.


I wonder why we don't see them sitting on the front porch as we walk by? Oh that's right, we don't live in those neighborhoods.


And we cannot seriously consider that catching the few real-deal porch sitting scofflaws and forcing them to pay would make any noticeable dent in the deficit.


OTOH, not starting bogus wars ( $1 billion a day, every day ... ) and not gutting finance/securities regulations, so badly that $1.5 trillion of the country's debt now goes to investment bankers and scam securities insurance firms, could take us a long way towards dealing with a lot of issues in this country.



If we're really concerned about the national debt, that might be the place to look, instead of front porches in poor neighborhoods.

[Edvaard]

What caused the  massive reduction in the tax base was unemployment jumping from less than 6% to over 10% as a result of the near economic meltdown, which itself was the result of a formerly decently working regulatory system, that Phil Gramm went to a lot of trouble to break, breaking. Mission accomplished.


So yes, the system that actually caused all this is broken, and congress is having trouble fixing it because all the people who benefited from it want it repaired as little as possible (and why they're even allowed still to lobby on the matter rather than serving jail time is beyond me).


That leaves us with the fact that the little bit of extra relief tossed to the lowest paid workers, to go along with the $1.5Trillion of 'relief' shipped to the scammers, reduced the tax paying numbers by another half percent or so.


No argument from me, this is a broken system.

[Barry Hufker]

While the system  may be  "broken" -- whatever that means, I don't believe one can begrudge  people for how they choose to live.  Many poor may have a nice tv in their home, but at what price?  Did they buy it (new or used) or is it "rent to own" at userous rates?  Don't they need a tv in their home for news and weather alerts?  Don't they need a computer in their home for information, school reports, etc.  Without the poor having computers, we create a new division among people -- those who have information and communication and those who do not (one of the reasons public libraries have computers for public use).

If one judges by superficial observations, it is easy to think one is being abused and that one's abuse is to another's benefit, but it's simply not true.

[fiasco ( P.M.DuMont )]

Barry Hufker wrote on Tue, 13 April 2010 23:47

...I don't believe one can begrudge  people for how they choose to live.

Unless they are rich...


or Republican.

[Samc]

Barry Hufker wrote on Tue, 13 April 2010 23:19

Barry Hufker wrote on Sun, 11 April 2010 23:37 Here is a timely article as to the truth and deliberate Republican lies/misrepresentations. http://crooksandliars.com/node/36257 Barry This one Sam (above).  I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. Barry

You and I both TOTALLY agree on this one!  No argument from me here...

[Samc]

bblackwood wrote on Tue, 13 April 2010 23:38

DarinK wrote on Tue, 13 April 2010 15:01 I agree.  It really surprises me that some seem to see it as how those awful folks are not paying their fair share, instead of seeing it as how those poor people are not able to earn enough money to contribute. I'm sorry, but half of the US population is not so poor they cannot afford to pay something in he way of income tax. I don't consider them awful for taking full advantage of the system, but I'm willing to bet 80% of that 47% who don't pay income tax live pretty well - we're not talking about the slums if Nicaragua here...

Brad, they don't pay FEDERAL income tax, they do pay state and other taxes.

From the same article you posted:

"The vast majority of people who escape federal income taxes still pay other taxes, including federal payroll taxes that fund Social Security and Medicare, and excise taxes on gasoline, aviation, alcohol and cigarettes. Many also pay state or local taxes on sales, income and property."

[Samc]

bblackwood wrote on Wed, 14 April 2010 01:30

Jon Hodgson wrote on Tue, 13 April 2010 18:38 That article is based on information from the Tax Policy Center You might find item 1 here interesting reading   http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/url.cfm?ID=90133 5 How so? No one is saying that 47% of the people of this country pay NO taxes, but when 43% of the US Gov'ts receipts come from income tax, and 47% of the people pay no income tax, well, any wonder why we are in deficit every year? There are certainly folks who need every penny to get by, but I guarantee a good percentage of those who pay no income tax have cable, big screen TV's, etc. I don't begrudge folks who need the break, but you cannot tell me 47% of this country cannot afford to pay some income taxes.

You are misrepresenting again, please see above...

[Barry Hufker]

Fiasco wrote on Wed, 14 April 2010 05:56

Unless they are rich... or Republican.

I don't begrudge either.  Although I may take exception to how they make their money and how they try to force others to live.


Barry

[Taproot]

I think the misunderstanding here is that the credits do not zero out when your tax liability is met. If the credit/deductions are greater than your tax liability, you get refund. During a particularly crappy year, I was the beneficiary of this "credit". I received back, just over $3000 MORE than I put in. Did I give the money back? No. Do I think the credit should null at zero. Yes.

[Jay Kadis]

Here's a list of state tax delinquents from California:

http://www.ftb.ca.gov/individuals/txdlnqnt.shtml

There's a name we know on the list - see if you spot it.

[Berolzheimer]

Jay Kadis wrote on Wed, 14 April 2010 11:39

Here's a list of state tax delinquents from California: http://www.ftb.ca.gov/individuals/txdlnqnt.shtml There's a name we know on the list - see if you spot it.

Uh oh, pretty close to the top, too.

[DarinK]

More debunking of how the 47% number is being used to mis-represent what's really going on regarding federal taxes:
http://crooksandliars.com/node/36340

Enjoy.

[Strummer]

http://www.salon.com/news/tea_parties/index.html?story=/opin ion/feature/2010/04/14/right_wing_tax_myths_april_15

Half of US households hold 2-1/2% of the wealth?

The state of the economy is their fault, no doubt.

And liberal think tanks twist facts to suit their agenda.

The number is arguable, agreed. I've seen conservative estimates as high as 17%! Imagine that.

[Edvaard]

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