Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Barry Hufker]

I (obviously) strongly support the article and it's conclusions.

I believe the article presents the "correct" perspective on this issue.  If you'd like, feel free to tell me (us), with facts, how the article is incorrect.

Barry

[Edvaard]

The only thing more amazing than the fact that almost half the work force in a country with such a high per capita GDP do not make enough money to pay taxes, is the fact that so many do not even notice that it is amazing that a country with such a high per capita GDP pays almost half the work force so poorly.

[seedyunderbelly.com]

I don't fault people for taking what they are given

[Barry Hufker]

I don't fault people for taking what they need.

[fiasco ( P.M.DuMont )]

Quote:

I don't fault people for taking what they are given

Quote:

I don't fault people for taking what they need.

I fault people for taking what they want.

[DarinK]

Edvaard wrote on Tue, 13 April 2010 00:01

The only thing more amazing than the fact that almost half the work force in a country with such a high per capita GDP do not make enough money to pay taxes, is the fact that so many do not even notice that it is amazing that a country with such a high per capita GDP pay almost half the work force so poorly.

I agree.  It really surprises me that some seem to see it as how those awful folks are not paying their fair share, instead of seeing it as how those poor people are not able to earn enough money to contribute.  It is easier to look down on people when you're above them instead of with them, but in the U.S. it seems the poor & un/under-employed are angry at other poor & un/under-employed people.
I don't have my copy of Slaugherhouse Five handy, but I remember Vonnegut has a good bit in there about how the U.S. is the only country where poor people are taught to be hostile towards other poor people, and blame them for all their difficulties.  I believe he quotes the attitude, "If you're so smart, how come you aren't rich?"  It's sort of the flip-side of the American dream; if you can become anything if you just try hard enough, then obviously those who have little have just not been trying.
As the divide between rich & poor continues to grow, with the middle class disappearing, of course the percentage who pay taxes will decrease.

[Samc]

Barry Hufker wrote on Mon, 12 April 2010 16:56

I (obviously) strongly support the article and it's conclusions. I believe the article presents the "correct" perspective on this issue.  If you'd like, feel free to tell me (us), with facts, how the article is incorrect. Barry

I was (obviously) writing about the article Brad linked to in his original post, what article are you referring to Barry?

[Barry Hufker]

Barry Hufker wrote on Sun, 11 April 2010 23:37

Here is a timely article as to the truth and deliberate Republican lies/misrepresentations. http://crooksandliars.com/node/36257 Barry

This one Sam (above).  I'm sorry if I misunderstood you.

Barry

[bblackwood]

DarinK wrote on Tue, 13 April 2010 15:01

I agree.  It really surprises me that some seem to see it as how those awful folks are not paying their fair share, instead of seeing it as how those poor people are not able to earn enough money to contribute.

I'm sorry, but half of the US population is not so poor they cannot afford to pay something in he way of income tax. I don't consider them awful for taking full advantage of the system, but I'm willing to bet 80% of that 47% who don't pay income tax live pretty well - we're not talking about the slums if Nicaragua here...

[Barry Hufker]

"we're not talking about the slums if Nicaragua here..."

Just the slums in the U.S....


Again, I would say many of these people got a refund.  A few got a free ride.

But it sucks to be poor no matter where you are.

[Jon Hodgson]

bblackwood wrote on Tue, 13 April 2010 23:38

DarinK wrote on Tue, 13 April 2010 15:01 I agree.  It really surprises me that some seem to see it as how those awful folks are not paying their fair share, instead of seeing it as how those poor people are not able to earn enough money to contribute. I'm sorry, but half of the US population is not so poor they cannot afford to pay something in he way of income tax. I don't consider them awful for taking full advantage of the system, but I'm willing to bet 80% of that 47% who don't pay income tax live pretty well - we're not talking about the slums if Nicaragua here...

That article is based on information from the Tax Policy Center

You might find item 1 here interesting reading

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/url.cfm?ID=90133 5

[bblackwood]

Jon Hodgson wrote on Tue, 13 April 2010 18:38

That article is based on information from the Tax Policy Center You might find item 1 here interesting reading  http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/url.cfm?ID=90133 5

How so? No one is saying that 47% of the people of this country pay NO taxes, but when 43% of the US Gov'ts receipts come from income tax, and 47% of the people pay no income tax, well, any wonder why we are in deficit every year?

There are certainly folks who need every penny to get by, but I guarantee a good percentage of those who pay no income tax have cable, big screen TV's, etc.

I don't begrudge folks who need the break, but you cannot tell me 47% of this country cannot afford to pay some income taxes.

[Jon Hodgson]

bblackwood wrote on Wed, 14 April 2010 01:30

Jon Hodgson wrote on Tue, 13 April 2010 18:38 That article is based on information from the Tax Policy Center You might find item 1 here interesting reading   http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/url.cfm?ID=90133 5 How so? No one is saying that 47% of the people of this country pay NO taxes, but when 43% of the US Gov'ts receipts come from income tax, and 47% of the people pay no income tax, well, any wonder why we are in deficit every year? There are certainly folks who need every penny to get by, but I guarantee a good percentage of those who pay no income tax have cable, big screen TV's, etc. I don't begrudge folks who need the break, but you cannot tell me 47% of this country cannot afford to pay some income taxes.

I thought you might like to educate yourself in your outrage. It's understandable to be annoyed that some people aren't paying their fair share (whatever you personally feel a "fair share" is), but I think it's also a good idea to get a better perspective on who that might be.

How many of that 47% have cable and big screen TVs?

"According to our research, more than 75 percent of us will pay at least some form of federal tax in 2010."
(This refers to income and payroll taxes)

"Those who pay no federal taxes are mostly the low-income elderly or very poor families with children. Even about half of those with annual incomes under $10,000 pay some federal tax, most often payroll taxes on wages. "

And which is the credit you think is unfair or incorrect?

"Half of them earn too little, while the other half -- mostly middle- and lower-income households -- will take advantage of tax credits such as the earned income credit, the child and child-care credits, the American Opportunity and Lifetime Learning credits, which help pay for college, and the saver's credit, which subsidizes retirement saving. "

These people aren't EVADING tax, they're paying what the tax system says they should, they're subject to the same tax system that you are, so where is the system failing in your opinion? Which of these allowances is wrong, or too big?

[bblackwood]

Jon Hodgson wrote on Tue, 13 April 2010 20:00

I thought you might like to educate yourself in your outrage.

I've read plenty, including your link. I think maybe we're passing like ships in the night here, which means I've failed in my attempts to explain why I feel the way I do.

Quote:

These people aren't EVADING tax, they're paying what the tax system says they should, they're subject to the same tax system that you are, so where is the system failing in your opinion? Which of these allowances is wrong, or too big?

No where have I said they were doing anything wrong. The system is broken, that's the entire point I've been trying to make in this thread. When 47% of people can be (legally) exempt from income tax, something which is no small amount for many of us who pay, the system is broken.

Fair tax, flat tax, whatever - at this point we have around half of the citizens of this country funding nearly half the entire budget for the US gov't, something we ALL benefit from.

As I've already said, I don't begrudge those who qualify for these reduced tax rates, but any system which allows such a massive reduction in the tax base - a reduction which isn't a 'buy groceries or not' determination - is broken and unfair for those who do have to pay. Hence the 'big screens and cable TV' bit above.

Not sure if I can say it any more plainly than that.

Meh, I really like you guys, but I'm losing interest in this discussion. Not sure why I can't seem to make my point, I guess I'm not explaining myself very clearly, though it seems obvious to me. I guess I'm done, y'all have fun.

[Jon Hodgson]

double checking something