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Author Topic: Rebuilding adjoining wall  (Read 2604 times)

mjgreeneaudio

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Rebuilding adjoining wall
« on: March 29, 2010, 06:48:36 pm »

I have developed a small issue with isolation to the space next door to mine.  When I moved in the space was basically a storage space/drop box for the tenant.  Now 6 months later he is gone and someone has put in a retail space.  The wall adjoining my space and theirs is just a regular wall with insulation.  1/2 sheetrock on both sides and insulation in between.

The noise from them to me is not terrible, but in this case any decent amount of  noise into my space is not acceptable.  I know that when I am doing drums or guitars it has to be killing them.  They are very cool but as this goes on I can't imagine they won't become annoyed.  

My question is which is a better way to go:  Should I add a 5/8 inch layer of drywall to my side to increase the isolation, or do I build a staggered stud wall in front but not touching this wall and add insulation to that with drywall on my side.  Building an additional wall is more expensive.  Do I have to tear out any drywall that exists to increase the isolation or should I leave what is there?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Michael Greene
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franman

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Re: Rebuilding adjoining wall
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2010, 07:30:04 pm »

MG,

First things first.. look for any penetrations including above any ceilings. Look for pipe, electrical, etc. These flanking paths can kill even the low 40's STC you should be getting. It sounds like you want to take a bit out of the full range sound coming from your space (including drums, guitars, etc). I would recommend that you do a couple of things. Yes, a second stud wall will give you a significant increase in performance over adding a single layer of 5/8"GB to the existing face. The airspace, is an integral part of the isolation system. If you can afford it, I would recommend that you build the new stud wall, say 2" away from the face of the existing wall. Then put as much as you can onto your side of the studs up to four layers of material... Do at least two layers of 5/8"GB, but combining dissimilar materials can help performance as well... like GG / PLywood / GB for example.

Make sure you seal EVERYTHING tight including floor joints, ceiling joints, edges of walls, electrical penetrations, etc with non-hardening silicon caulk. Overlap all the lamination layers and use construction adhesive along with proper length sheet rock screws to attach each layer.

Other possible 'improvements' include use of Resilient channel, but this requires a lot more attention to detail..

Use of (heavier) Quiet Rock for final layer

Use of Green Glue instead of construction adhesive..

It all comes down to cost vs performance..

FM
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mjgreeneaudio

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Re: Rebuilding adjoining wall
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2010, 02:07:10 am »

Fran,
Thanks.  That helps a lot.  I will start looking again at the seals around everything.  I agree with you about the second wall.  It does sound like the best idea.  

Here is a thought.  If I build the second wall, 2 inches out and insulate the wall and add a layer of sheet rock or 2 layers.  Can I keep testing and adding until I get the isolation I need and then finish it off?  As long as I follow the attention to details you outlined will that work?  I love the idea of a bullet proof 4 layer wall but obviously the pocket book has different ideas.  I don't want to overbuild if I don't need to but I don't want to go through the process of painting, hanging treatments etc, only to find I need another layer.  

Does that sound like it will work?

Thanks again,
Michael Greene
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Constantin

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Re: Rebuilding adjoining wall
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2010, 07:01:19 am »

Quote:

Use of (heavier) Quiet Rock for final layer

Is it important which layer has the highest mass`?
Is it because of reflection coefficent (impedance Jump air/Wall) ?

So when no sound has to go out, its best to have the heavy layer inside, and when no sound has to come in, it is better to have the heavy layer outside???

cheers
Mika

Thomas Jouanjean

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Re: Rebuilding adjoining wall
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2010, 12:48:51 pm »

Constantin wrote on Fri, 02 April 2010 06:01

Quote:

Use of (heavier) Quiet Rock for final layer

Is it important which layer has the highest mass`?


Once all the layers are screwed tightly together they behave as one. So if you do a sandwich with multiple materials, you need to look at it as one big single layer of a "new material" with it's own properties. You can reach interesting properties like that!

Grain of salt: when you use GG, or when you engineer certain types of partitions with very high resilience then the order matters. (For example when you add limp mass as a constraint layer, it obviously has to be added between two tight layers of "hard" material").



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franman

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Re: Rebuilding adjoining wall
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2010, 08:43:41 am »

I have to agree with Thomas on the 'order of the layers' issue. You are creating one 'new' material by combining the different mass and resonance characteristics of the individual ones... should be one that is stronger than the sum of it's parts.

I'm not sure if I (always) agree with the other point. The Green Glue is a special case for me... Limp barriers actually perform better when they are installed 'free' (free to be limp)... When sandwiched between two rigid layers, I find things like vinyl to be a waste... IMHO.  Certain resilient solutions are a definite no-no between two other layers, like RC Channel. Never use RC between two layers guys..... and no offense to my esteemed colleague. (We are allowed to have differing opinions on some things guys).. LOL

FM
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Thomas Jouanjean

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Re: Rebuilding adjoining wall
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2010, 10:41:12 am »

franman wrote on Sat, 03 April 2010 07:43

I have to agree with Thomas on the 'order of the layers' issue. You are creating one 'new' material by combining the different mass and resonance characteristics of the individual ones... should be one that is stronger than the sum of it's parts.

I'm not sure if I (always) agree with the other point. The Green Glue is a special case for me... Limp barriers actually perform better when they are installed 'free' (free to be limp)... When sandwiched between two rigid layers, I find things like vinyl to be a waste... IMHO.  Certain resilient solutions are a definite no-no between two other layers, like RC Channel. Never use RC between two layers guys..... and no offense to my esteemed colleague. (We are allowed to have differing opinions on some things guys).. LOL

FM

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Thomas Jouanjean
Northward Acoustics - Engineering and Designs
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