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Author Topic: IMP 24 Discussion  (Read 22076 times)

Adam Miller

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Re: IMP 24 Discussion
« Reply #60 on: March 14, 2010, 05:49:37 PM »

Spike wrote on Sun, 14 March 2010 07:29



The Way Studio, over near London Fields... but at the moment I'm in NYC doing nothing but pop/rap sessions which is a far cry from the rock and jazz back home, probably why I'm a bit rusty


Good stuff, I think those kind of pop/rap tracking sessions are where some of the most interesting stuff happens in music right now... there's nothing like a producer turning up to a session with nothing but a laptop and logic and building a track from the ground up in a couple of hours.

Spike wrote on Sun, 14 March 2010 07:29

 Thanks for the comments, I'm curious as to the "harder panning" comment as the rhythm guitars are panned 100 % left and right!


Ha, I did actually listen to your mix twice trying to work out if the panning comment was maybe a bit dumb, but went with it anyway! Maybe it's more that the guitar in the center is too loud vs the others. Not sure, it's just something in there felt like it was bringing the overall width and separation of the mix in a bit.

Spike wrote on Sun, 14 March 2010 07:29

 Before I go in too deeply, in most of these submissions I felt the vocals were too far back. I know it's an "indie" thing but every single engineer I've worked with over here has hammered into me that the vocal treatment is crucial to making something a bestseller, and that you can get away with a lot if the vocals sound amazing.


In complete agreement- maybe this is a British vs US aesthetic? Very Happy I once quizzed a pretty legendary engineer about his vocal levels, and he told me that never in his 30+ year career had an A&R ever asked him to turn a vocal down.

Spike wrote on Sun, 14 March 2010 07:29

... where are you based?


I'm lucky enough to be up at AIR, and occasionally down at Strongroom. Cheers for the crit!

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Hallams

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Re: IMP 24 Discussion
« Reply #61 on: March 14, 2010, 07:27:17 PM »

Thanks for the mix reviews. This is a great learning opportunity as i don't do much work in this style and would like to do more. My approach for the mix was to try and nail the attitude thing especially in the intro as an attention grabber at the start of the song. Also attempted to get a sound that would reveal the attitude of the singer....really wanted the listener to hear the little quirks. Guitars and drums were the other essential ingredients to the attitude. The other main direction i chose because of the song, was to get a mix that was a bit reminiscent of more old school rock/pop and not be too "indie" genre specific. Looks like i over did it with that snare sound though.

My mix was ITB using Logic's and a few free plugins, Camelcrusher as a parallel on the drum bus and vox bus, the whole mix was parallel comped using rough rider. The vox had some of logic's tape delay and the vox verb was the bicasti PO64 impulse response in Space Designer. Rather than bounce in Logic, i sent the mix out through my Avalon 747 for about 2 dB gain reduction and a bit of eq and back into the box using the soft limit of the ensemble to get a bit of peak limiting.

One nagging question i still have is if the original recording was sped up a bit?? as i too found the vox more natural sounding whe played pack at 44.1?
 Again thanks for all the work involved in the IMP.
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Chris Hallam.
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Hallams

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Re: IMP 24 Discussion
« Reply #62 on: March 14, 2010, 08:10:36 PM »

......also just thought, it would be great to have a mastering engineer critique the mixes for some frequency specific info and all other obvious reasons.
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Chris Hallam.
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Spike

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Re: IMP 24 Discussion
« Reply #63 on: March 14, 2010, 09:06:49 PM »

Adam Miller wrote on Sun, 14 March 2010 16:49


Good stuff, I think those kind of pop/rap tracking sessions are where some of the most interesting stuff happens in music right now... there's nothing like a producer turning up to a session with nothing but a laptop and logic and building a track from the ground up in a couple of hours.


Yeah, I still can't decide whether that or the topline writers coming in and not just writing a ridiculously catchy song + all BVs in the same or less time is more impressive..! It has been an eyeopener. Wish the beatmakers were a bit less paranoid though, tracking vox against a 2track mp3 and making it all sit right is a nightmare.

Anyway, last few listens I didn't manage last night:

Fiasco - kick is too big, even in my fairly bass-lite headphones. If you picture your mix vertically (rising in frequency from top to bottom) then there's a hole both above and below the vocals. Chorus guitar leads are totally buried too and the mix feels right-heavy for some reason

Rankus - too much beater click perhaps? I think that might be why the reverb sounds odd on it. Snare feels like it's lacking body. Otherwise the balance is decent

Revolver 9 - kick is sub heavy... ok, now it's kicked in everything is too bassy. Weirdly enough you've got the vocals sitting at about the right relative level to the rest of the track.. just the rest isn't quite right.

Sriou - too little vocals and too much bass! More so than others... The guitars are tonally dull and something weird is going on with that snare sample - on some hits it sounds fine, on others it sounds metallic and a bit like a "clank". One of the few I let run to the end and again, top and tail your submissions people! The only time you can (and should) leave extra time around the music is if it's being sent to mastering

Grantis - nice drums, snare feels like it could be blended in a bit more? Depending on how modern of a sound you were going I'd say that the mix feels a bit too wet, which combined with the lack of attack on the guitars makes everything feel like blurry

DF - Nice but felt like the cymbals and air were completely gone.

Nizzle - enjoyed the feel of this one, except for the choice of snare sound... For me it doesn't match the rest of the sound you went for. Also the vocals felt like they could have done with just section by section automation just to make sure they didn't fall back when the guitars get thicker

Yoons - Feels like a slight gap where the guitars end and the bass start. Happy to hear cymbals but like a lot of these mixes everything feels congested in the lower mids

Music Junkie - the snare is way too slappy.. also feels like too much reverb on the kit. Guitars lacking bite and highend...

Greg Dixon - Other than the snare (needs a bit more body) I liked this one quite a bit...

I think that's everyone... as said before, a lot of these mixes were fine, but we're here to pick them apart, right? I think I'll be quite happy to not have to hear that intro again for a little while...
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grantis

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Re: IMP 24 Discussion
« Reply #64 on: March 15, 2010, 01:24:21 AM »

Spike wrote on Sun, 14 March 2010 20:06

Grantis - nice drums, snare feels like it could be blended in a bit more? Depending on how modern of a sound you were going I'd say that the mix feels a bit too wet, which combined with the lack of attack on the guitars makes everything feel like blurry



OK, that's now 2 comments that my snare needs better "blending" or that it "sticks out" a bit.  I have such a hard time with that, because when I try to blend it more, it feels like it loses power.  

Thanks for the comment!

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Seb Riou

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Re: IMP 24 Discussion
« Reply #65 on: March 15, 2010, 08:23:34 AM »

Spike wrote on Mon, 15 March 2010 02:06



Sriou -  something weird is going on with that snare sample - on some hits it sounds fine, on others it sounds metallic and a bit like a "clank"


It's because it's not a sample, it's the original snare with room mics (Coles 4038's catching a speaker playing the track in my drum room)

Thanks for the time spent on that Spike !
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Scott Featherstone

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Re: IMP 24 Discussion
« Reply #66 on: March 15, 2010, 06:57:29 PM »

Just wanted to say THANK YOU to everyone that reviewed my mix.

I definitely have some mid range issues to resolve with the new room.

Thank you all for your feedback.

Scott
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revolver9

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Re: IMP 24 Discussion
« Reply #67 on: March 16, 2010, 09:13:11 AM »

What an ear opener!
I really need to listen through everybodys stuff, theres alot to learn from this.

Thanks J.Hall for this forum, these tracks were def alot of fun. To have my crappy mix listened to AND critiqued by such a talented group...well i'm pretty darn thankfull to you all.

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fiasco ( P.M.DuMont )

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Re: IMP 24 Discussion
« Reply #68 on: March 16, 2010, 05:42:19 PM »

Thanks all for the listen.

I am swamped at "regular" work, so I don't know if I will get to review everyone's submits.

I'll try, though.
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Philip

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Re: IMP 24 Discussion
« Reply #69 on: March 17, 2010, 11:00:44 AM »

Page two of the submission thread, reviews:

Rune
starts out pretty dark, but it opens up once the band kicks in.  guitars feel a touch dark, but that might be cause the vocal and overheads are so bright.  mix feels pretty balanced to me.  i like the vocal FX, nice placement.  i could stand to have the guitars more hyped up to fill in behind the vocal.  

southboundloco
that verb  at the top bugs me, but that's just me.  vocal feels too quiet and a touch dark.  (i got the vocal level wrong as well......rookie mistake.....it happens) something feels wrong in the lower mids.  can't really pinpoint it.  that snare drum is popping.  i dig that.  i think that kick drum is just too big, maybe that's what is pulling the mix down.

graham
top end feels kinda dark, but the drum overheads are above all that.  vocal is inbetween.  this means that mastering would have trouble balancing this out.  over all balances are pretty good.  the extreme subs are a bit big for my taste and the snare feels a little too robotic.  when you do the sample, just set the "dynamic tracking" a bit higher.  should smooth some of that out.  maybe you did, i don't know.  i kinda want to hear the guitars match the aggression of the snare.  they just kind of sit there now, IMO.

revolver9
holy bowel movement batman.  i think we have an acoustics issue here.  the lowend is SO HUGE it's like a hiphop mix.  i mean, the top end actually does come through, so kudos on that.  wow, tchad blake would be proud of the effort......vocal FX feel a little 80's synth rock to me.  man, if the bottom was cleaned up and the vocal FX were tamed down, this would be a good mix.  the guitars feel really good.

rankus
you really "threw" this one back.  feels like a hyped version of a 70's rock record.  which is awesome, cause what you went for actually came across.  in that vein, i might have gone a bit "plunkier" with the bass, and not so attacky with the kick drum.  nice job though.  toms feel good to.  too bad about those overheads, if they sounded good you could have really made this thing hit.

mafigi
intro is weird.  not the effects, but the timing of the band entering.  vocal is really pushed back.  maybe you meant to do that.  bass guitar is pretty loud.  the drum room doesn't really work for me.  if you went a bit more "dry" with it, i could see it working.  the mix is pretty wet.

reno
bottom end is pretty big, but there is still a good balance here.  i'm sure mastering could work with this mix.  i'm glad to hear attention paid to balancing the top end.  vocal feels filtered up too high, and compressed in an awkward way.  attack and release times are grabbing it funny.  this is the first submission i would say is too bright, IMO.

DCombs
feels good.  the room on the kick isn't my bag, but it's a decent room.bass might be a bit tucked back.  guitars feels nice and big.  wish the chorus lifted harder.  doesn't lift at all now.  vocal EQ doesn't match the overall top end of the music.  this is all minor detail work (stuff you either overlooked, didn't care about, or haven't thought about)  hopefully it's helpful, cause this mix is solid.

Gio
really thin mix.  probably nothing below 200Hz here.  if you filled out the bottom, this mix would be pretty solid.  your chorus has a decent lift to it, which seems to be rare in all these submissions.  kudos on that.

Eric H.
overall it's a touch too wet for me.  it feels pretty good aside from that.  a bit harsh in the top end.  those overheads were rough to work with, i know.  guitars have a nice bite to them.

Fiasco
that bass guitar is really up there.  those overheads are rattling my fillings out.  really bright....  if you tamed that down and got the bass under control this would be in the ball park.  guitars feel really pushed back.  EQ balance is decent otherwise.  that snare feels a little "toyish" to me.  just my take on it.

page 3 coming soon.
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j.hall

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Re: IMP 24 Discussion
« Reply #70 on: March 17, 2010, 11:16:02 AM »

Quote:

 Reno Said:
Whaouw... J.Hall

How you make it? What do you use to inflate, enhance the sound like this

Your guitars are... great! lots of harmonics and presence

what's your secret...   please tell me  

Hedd crane song? OTB mixing? analog summing? aphex??



thanks for the kind words.  my mix has plenty wrong with it.  totally missed the boat on the vocal level.  rookie mistake.......

the guitars are just EQ'd, and they have the crane song phoenix plug-in on them

"guitar 3" has a compressor on it that's working fairly hard actually.

here is a pic of the plugs on my guitars.

guitar 1 and 2 are identical EQ's and crane songs.  screen shot is left to right, guitar 1 (and 2), guitar 3, and solo.

there are a few other subtle things happening to the guitars as well, but they don't really amount to much other then depth of field and vibe.

hopefully i answered the question.....
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Gio

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Re: IMP 24 Discussion
« Reply #71 on: March 17, 2010, 02:23:46 PM »

Thanks to all who posted so far.

It's obvious I've not yet solved some monitoring/room issues in this particular space, what with all the "thin", and "where's the bass" comments my submission has gotten.  Cool

As others have said, there's nothing much to add to what J. has already mentioned. And of course, from where I sit, I would consider many to be way heavy in the low end. I should have some time to write some crits in a day or two, if anyone cares.

And yes, Grantis, I would be another to pile on about the snare sample!  Twisted Evil

Cheers, all. Time to go try and tweak the room some more, or myself if I can't get this sorted out soon. 1 more year here, and I move, and get to start all over.......  Mad
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Reno

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Re: IMP 24 Discussion
« Reply #72 on: March 17, 2010, 03:22:22 PM »

Thanks for the reviews J.Hall

Quote:

thanks for the kind words. my mix has plenty wrong with it. totally missed the boat on the vocal level. rookie mistake.......

the guitars are just EQ'd, and they have the crane song phoenix plug-in on them

"guitar 3" has a compressor on it that's working fairly hard actually.

here is a pic of the plugs on my guitars.

guitar 1 and 2 are identical EQ's and crane songs. screen shot is left to right, guitar 1 (and 2), guitar 3, and solo.

there are a few other subtle things happening to the guitars as well, but they don't really amount to much other then depth of field and vibe.

hopefully i answered the question.....


You're the man...

I've never seen the phoenix plug-in by crane song before. I know the hardware HEDD that is a wonderful tool but this plug-in is pretty awesome...

Thank you for this answer!

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mafigi

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Re: IMP 24 Discussion
« Reply #73 on: March 17, 2010, 06:03:12 PM »

j.hall wrote on Wed, 17 March 2010 16:00

Page two of the submission thread, reviews:



Thanks for the reviews J.Hall
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Scott Featherstone

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Re: IMP 24 Discussion
« Reply #74 on: April 04, 2010, 08:54:49 PM »

Can't wait for the next one !...I have some corrections I made here, and am looking forward to trying again.






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