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Author Topic: WUMP20 - Comments  (Read 8430 times)

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WUMP20 - Comments
« on: March 02, 2010, 10:51:41 AM »

Your expert opinion goes here  Cool
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Pieter Vincenten - ATORmastering

KAyo

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Re: WUMP20 - Comments
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2010, 05:41:06 PM »

Damn!! I just got back from a weekend break.
I had finished the master on the 26th, but, since we weren't allowed to upload it, I had to wait until I got back, thus..the delay.

Will do it, sometime today.
Thanks.

KAyo
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fuse

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Re: WUMP20 - Comments
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2010, 09:12:42 PM »

Finished 24th but I was too late and uploaded it today.
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Wouter Veltmaat
Eindhoven

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Re: WUMP20 - Comments
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2010, 11:22:11 PM »

I posted early yesterday, but pulled it and reposted (double dithered in the SADiE bounce window).

The correct version is titled WUMP20 Dana White01.WAV

Thanks for pulling the correct version.

I look forward to listening to all of these versions.  The track was fun to work on!


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Tim Boyce

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Re: WUMP20 - Comments
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2010, 08:03:02 PM »

yup ... mine was late too .. got it uploaded afternoon. (although done for a week)

I gave a quick listen to everything, and was surprised by some of what I heard .. (including one track that apparently didn't get a load-back check) . . render volume issues  

KAyo

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Re: WUMP20 - Comments
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2010, 09:14:40 PM »

Yup.. I shall do the listening tests, shortly.
Watch this space...

KAyo
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Tubefreak

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Re: WUMP20 - Comments
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2010, 06:01:51 PM »

Again some very good material. Here's a very quick run through some observations (on headphones!). I won't be in the studio for a week, so I'll also post my settings.

- 4 persons didn't faded the noise at the end
- most people removed the DC offset
- ChrisDoremus track sounded like it had a delayed signal (tell me that's not a chorus?!)
- Patrick T had a very clubby sound, which was too much for me
- ggidluck was too nasal for me
- found Dana White's version too sharp&loud

Fuse -> I think something went wrong. The sound was good, but you didn't fade the beginning/end, there's an obvious hum and large DC offset. Maybe you were in too much of a hurry, cause I know your quality is normally very good. (ps just found out we live aprox 500 meters apart!) Smile

Can't say which one I like best, def need the big speakers and sub for good judgement. Personally I found the highs on the original track too sharp. Some addressed this, others didn't, just a matter of taste and reference I guess.

Kojaks 'you can't stop it' was used as reference by me, it works great in the clubs, stereo and radio. I did some extra versions and..... didn't backup the settings properly for the version I uploaded. Embarassed

It as something like:
Voxengo MSED
with aprox 0.5 boost on side

DDMF LP10 stereo EQ in MS mode (all highs with phase = 1)
MONOSIDE
cut around 20 Hz
boost around 44 Hz for sub movement
broad boost around 559 kHz to fill the sound
dip around 4k3 Hz to reduce harshness
slight shelve at 11k for air
STEREOSIDE
wide boost around 630 to fill the sound
cut around 5k2 to reduce harshness
shelve around 7k

Kjearhus GCO-1 compressor
don't remember exactly, aprox 3dB of compression, high pass filter, attack around 50ms or so, release bit faster. Ratio around 3:1.

UAD Precision Multiband
This was just used as an EQ to boost between 0-79Hz and 79-140Hz to add some weight for the club.

Kjearhus MPL-1 limiter
choose this one over Voxengo Elephant and UAD, it suited the highs better imo. Just a few dBs of limiting, -0.1 output.

Can't wait to hear the songs in the studio.
Maarten

KAyo

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Re: WUMP20 - Comments
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2010, 09:51:19 AM »

Hi all,

The listening was completed with levels matched. Speakers and headphones were used.
I thank the team for our combined endeavours.

As usual we thank ATOR for all his Admin work, and Brad for hosting.
I must confess; this was a bemusing and mystifying WUMP20. More on that, as follows…..


MikeyC
To boot, it felt overly loud, fatigued and somewhat shredded at the periphery! Tone is inclined towards high mids and considerably edgy. A slightly calmer take on this would have been preferred, even if the given EQ were used.


Dana White
Approach felt is, heavy compression... A little overly thumpy!, and feels tilted towards the brighter mid side. Thump is heal-able, EQ needs a stern revision.


patrik_t
Instant darkness and cloud felt. Clarity is diminished and articulated definitions gone astray. The EQ needs to cleanse more here. A desire to see through the fog is felt.


TCB_Master
Initial impact overtly blasted! A sense of only RMS is felt, blinding all other attributes. Nonetheless, it was still in tack and popping well. Personally, I anticipated greater EQ work, providing much desired softness.. that’s all.


ATOR
Quite welcoming on first glance. Strong tonally and sturdy too. Analogue felt! On closer listening, it feels as though many extremes were combined to output; though appealing, still fatiguing and eludes that clean crispness or sprite, I yearn to listen out for. Could be a go, if teething remedies were to be administered, especially in areas of EQ.


ChrisDoremus
What happened there?! Something quite intrusive is claiming the master’s sound. Exciting masters in augmented ways is understandable approach, but, the processes need to be monitored more diligently. A chronic bout of doubling going on here. Please, revisit entire approach.


fuse
Apart from a high mid tonality sharpness, and the bass having moved into another or a non-exciting range, it felt quite good!! I still think, it’s edgy… because it’s been smashed ever so slightly. Smooth out that EQ,, and it would do it wonders.


ggidluck
On listening and comparing, It felt, boxy tonality and definitions undeveloped, lopsided on the mid and high mids plateaus, Contorts a nasal shelf. Flatten out that EQ, and start again...


LudwigM
Unfortunately, another of the masters aimed too high on RMS threshold. It suffers similar extremes as some others. High mid sided EQ, and slightly emaciated in the low mids. Fatiguing and sharp too. RMS was evident, but the frequencies that paid for it are coming home to roost!


BiigNiick
Harsh Galore! It could be your monitoring too. Thinned out, but turned much too harsh and bashing the door down. Calmer approach if possible. Tonally, recoil the highs.


Tubefreak   ::Updated:::
Atleast it started of soft on the ears. In spirit, it’s kept true to the original, except stout and on the verge of obese! I sense broad strokes and minor overly done mids to low mid expressions. The thump feels stretched all across. A dissection would compliment this warm fuzzy approach. In many ways you’ve caressed the ears with heat and warmth, however, let the sculpting begin and get that final frequency layout stage locked in. Triumph, awaits! A slither less RMS, would have allowed me to stand back and look at it better too. Nonetheless, a valuable attempt to work it soft on the ears.

*****************                    ******************


Too many masters adorned only high RMS and harsh upper octave EQ work to reach that hotness, and thus felt quite unpleasing to listen too, especially when compared to some wonderfully mastered Dance or Euro Dance tracks etc...At times it felt like, not many were used to dance mastering at all! I would much prefer to have listened to cleaner, calmer and smoother EQ work, combined with a brave RMS, … rather than purely massive RMS outputs. A combination of high RMS seeking evoked via the high-mids has destroyed many masters this time round. Some felt like their compressors had maxed out and showed themselves up as some very fatiguing masters. From my point of view only, I am afraid; this was an eye opener and a wake up call to the group, to dig deeper. I felt power, but not much class in the acts.

The important thing is, I am glad we all tried and may learn a thing or two here...


Ciao,
KAyo


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Slip

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Re: WUMP20 - Comments
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2010, 10:10:30 AM »

Hi guys,

I'm really sorry I missed this one.. again! I was unfortunately hit by a nasty case of the flu or something, not sure exactly what but I've been bedridden for a whole week now. This is the first day I feel strong enough to actually write a coherent post on a messaging board (thought I could ride it out without medication but yesterday I gave up. What do ya know? Those damn pills work! Smile ).

Anyhow, my question is: Should I still upload my version I did a few weeks ago or would you guys prefer if I stay completely out of this now that I'm completely off? Can I still offer you guys my opinion on your masters (I've got work tomorrow in the studio but tuesday is free for listening), would that be of any help for this thread?

Cheers and sorry guys!
Slip
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Niklas Silen @ Good Will Studios, Helsinki, Finland

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Re: WUMP20 - Comments
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2010, 01:15:01 PM »

Hey Slip, just upload that master man. The wump exercise will do you good to gently get back on your horse   Laughing

I've planned my listening for tomorrow.



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Pieter Vincenten - ATORmastering

djwaudio

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Re: WUMP20 - Comments
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2010, 02:59:56 PM »

Hi Everyone,

I did some listening on my mains, B&W 802Ds, and smaller speakers which include Event BAS 20/20s, and a B&W Zeppelin Mini.  

I did not adjust gain at all. To me, the overall levels and how the master drives speakers is an aspect of the mastering process. Also, an additional gain stage is going to alter the timbres. The levels are all in the ballpark anyway.

Here are my *very subjective* impressions after a few listens:


Big Nick
Good punch, nice warmth and imaging, with a reasonable level. It played well on all systems, even spectrum, nice fullness, though a little flat w/ compression.  Well done. Listenable and grooves.

TCB
Nice depth, a  bit crunchy in the vocal & wah guitar frequencies, which gets fatiguing. Low end gets distracting, missing dynamics in bass/kick, brightness feels a bit broad. Maybe, narrower Q's would help.

Patrick
Boom Box!  Interesting pumping quality. The bass feels more reggae. The compression haters are probably going to dis this entry, but I like that it's different. I'm groovin', it's gripping and I didn't have to turn it off after 30 seconds. On bigger systems, the low-end is distracting after a while, but plays well on smaller speakers.  Interesting peak level set to -.33dBFS. Cool entry.

Mickey C
Nice bass/kick relationship, nice emphasis on the upper spectrum, plays well on smaller speakers. It looses focus on mains, could be smoother & more engaging. Not coherent enough in the upper mids, a little stiff.

Ludwig
Good power, upper mids a little congested, breakdown a little flat.  The groove feels eaten up by processing at times. I prefer more integration and smoothness in the sound spectrum. The percussivness & distortion coupled with the heavy limiting is working against the feel at times.  I like this entry in a lot of ways, but there are some things holding it back for me. Check noise blast in the intro, top and tails, etc.  Mastering is much more than EQ!

Ggidluck
I like the lighter low end, decent separation of kick & bass, though the dynamics feel unfocused and lacking in coherency. It feels like the processing is overcoming the continuity of the sound. Too much compression for me.  I might get up and dance though.

Fuse
Sounds good, but not engaging. The dynamics and feel off... slow? I want less focus on the low end and more of the other instruments in the mix. More cohesiveness through the spectrum and smoother presentation would be nice. Get focused on the feel and groove.

Chris Doremus
The dynamic feels well controlled & punchy, decent level and balance. Keep working on kick/bass relationship.  I'd like more separation in frequencies & more excitement.  I feel tension listening to this, especially on the smaller systems. The snare can be biting.  Upper mids could use softening. More easy on the ears please.

ATOR
Good feel in the intro, voice gets strident, and groove suffers when all the elements come in. The imaging gets a little confusing. It translated well to small speakers and mains. Crisp mids., good level, but the limiter is swallowing the kick more than I like.  Nice depth and the breakdown sounds lively. More overall coherency please. Back off a little on the processing and you're home.
I'm bopin'.

DW
The most different, distinct? Good articulation and coherence. It lost bass compared with other entries, but I'm groovin'. Crisp and focused, yet wide.  Lighter in the low-end, but pops.  Gritty.  Tamborine sounds bright on smaller speakers.

AlvoryUK
Beat driven, cool bass. I can hear a bit of over-modulation. Mids a little vague and flat. Give me more smoothness and clear out some congerstion. A little less compression to loosen it up. Overall, a nice entry.

Tube Freak
Thunder & throb on the mains.  Interesting deep sub bass going on, but still translated well to smaller speakers. Snare snaps, stereo image slightly smeared, a little "slow" sounding. The imaging/width feels a little unstable. More coherent please. Nice sonics & timbre overall. I go from liking it, to not, depending on the section. As the mix gets more dense, this master gets more harsh. As the arrangement thins out, it feels great. Pretty close TF.

Thanks guys!
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Dana

Dana J. White
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ATOR

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Re: WUMP20 - Comments
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2010, 09:11:06 AM »

My comments:

AIvory
It lacks mids. The bass guitar is very prominent now. I like the punch.

ChrisDoremus
It's light on bass and punch. As if you've used parallel compression that was out of phase or maybe it's the stereo widening.

Dana White
Highs are a bit much. Your choice of attack/release settings has made the song feel slower in tempo than the mix.

GGidluck
Very mid heavy. Tophigh is a little too much. You've brought up the percussion and brought down the kick/snare.

LudwigM
Kick is flabby, the low end is dragging. Could use more high end.

MikeyC
Sounds great. Close to the mix but fuller. Good groove. Maybe you could temper the high end a little.

Patrick T
Very heavy, very compressed bass that's overwhelming the track.

Tubefreak
Low end is too big. The kick is lagging, it was like that in the mix but now it has become very obvious. I like the fat low mids.

BiigNick
Sounds goods. Good energy, good groove. Highs are a bit much.

Master Tri
The bigger low mids mask the percussion. The kick is dragging a little. A bit dark.

Fuse
The kick is dragging here. Otherwise good sound.

Kayo
Not a fan of the pumping, it kills the groove. Sound is very woolly.
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Pieter Vincenten - ATORmastering

djwaudio

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Re: WUMP20 - Comments
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2010, 03:43:12 PM »

Any more listeners ready to report?
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Respectfully submitted,
Dana

Dana J. White
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MC

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Re: WUMP20 - Comments
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2010, 10:31:53 AM »

My comment are coming shortly. I was out of town but will give a listen today. Thanks everyone.

Patrik T

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Re: WUMP20 - Comments
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2010, 09:12:47 PM »

Will drop my comments later today.

The thing I appreciate with a good old WUMP is that one can check that intentional translation indeed does translate. So far I've received exactly the comments I wanted to hear!

Life is lovely!


Regards
Patrik
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