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Author Topic: no pop filter, mix/edit technique  (Read 8635 times)

Tomas Danko

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Re: no pop filter, mix/edit technique
« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2010, 08:55:19 am »

DCombs wrote on Sun, 07 February 2010 06:56

iCombs wrote on Thu, 04 February 2010 15:50

NelsonL wrote on Thu, 04 February 2010 06:59

Tomas Danko wrote on Thu, 04 February 2010 04:44

jonathan jetter wrote on Wed, 03 February 2010 18:01

i have recently stopped using a pop-filter for most sessions.

i think for hip-hop, or loud rock, the benefits may still outweigh the drawbacks.

but i was about to throw down several thousand for a different vocal mic after growing displeased with my Mojave MA-200.

the other night i did a vocal session with no pop filter and the mic sounded like a million bucks.  easily the best vocal sound i've recorded in a long, long time.  i've done other sessions with the same singer through the same chain (API 312, Purple MC77, Digi 192) that didn't sound nearly as big/full/warm/awesome/natural/whatever.  totally happy with the mic now.


Sometimes it's useful to have a pop filter in order to prevent a nervous and inexperienced talent/actor from moving too close to the microphone...


Or, just arrange the pencil horizontally.


Sharp end out...helps to really teach the lesson.


i'm with icombs, maybe educating people about how to sing into a mic is good. i always sing slightly off axis, no filter; no pop. just don't be retarded and focus on what really matters, a performance. i think that should be a moto.



When it comes to inexperienced actors (not vocalists), sometimes you can tell them not to change their distance and angle to the microphone and it will be forgotten everytime they act. It's hilarious, but also a problem. A taped cross on the floor and a pop filter can help the situation a bit.
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NelsonL

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Re: no pop filter, mix/edit technique
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2010, 05:47:26 am »

I've had 'punk rock' vocalists hold a stunt 58 while recording them with an LDC.
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DCombs

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Re: no pop filter, mix/edit technique
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2010, 07:18:57 pm »

Tomas Danko wrote on Sun, 07 February 2010 07:55

DCombs wrote on Sun, 07 February 2010 06:56

iCombs wrote on Thu, 04 February 2010 15:50

NelsonL wrote on Thu, 04 February 2010 06:59

Tomas Danko wrote on Thu, 04 February 2010 04:44

jonathan jetter wrote on Wed, 03 February 2010 18:01

i have recently stopped using a pop-filter for most sessions.

i think for hip-hop, or loud rock, the benefits may still outweigh the drawbacks.

but i was about to throw down several thousand for a different vocal mic after growing displeased with my Mojave MA-200.

the other night i did a vocal session with no pop filter and the mic sounded like a million bucks.  easily the best vocal sound i've recorded in a long, long time.  i've done other sessions with the same singer through the same chain (API 312, Purple MC77, Digi 192) that didn't sound nearly as big/full/warm/awesome/natural/whatever.  totally happy with the mic now.


Sometimes it's useful to have a pop filter in order to prevent a nervous and inexperienced talent/actor from moving too close to the microphone...


Or, just arrange the pencil horizontally.


Sharp end out...helps to really teach the lesson.


i'm with icombs, maybe educating people about how to sing into a mic is good. i always sing slightly off axis, no filter; no pop. just don't be retarded and focus on what really matters, a performance. i think that should be a moto.



When it comes to inexperienced actors (not vocalists), sometimes you can tell them not to change their distance and angle to the microphone and it will be forgotten everytime they act. It's hilarious, but also a problem. A taped cross on the floor and a pop filter can help the situation a bit.



indeed! i also think that if a plosive "ruined" your performance, that something else might be wrong with it.

would you rather hear a great performance with a pop, or hear a mediocre performance with no pops?
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NelsonL

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Re: no pop filter, mix/edit technique
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2010, 12:49:09 am »

My Pop used to take me to concerts all the time...
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Tomas Danko

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Re: no pop filter, mix/edit technique
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2010, 07:03:52 am »

DCombs wrote on Tue, 09 February 2010 00:18

Tomas Danko wrote on Sun, 07 February 2010 07:55

DCombs wrote on Sun, 07 February 2010 06:56

iCombs wrote on Thu, 04 February 2010 15:50

NelsonL wrote on Thu, 04 February 2010 06:59

Tomas Danko wrote on Thu, 04 February 2010 04:44

jonathan jetter wrote on Wed, 03 February 2010 18:01

i have recently stopped using a pop-filter for most sessions.

i think for hip-hop, or loud rock, the benefits may still outweigh the drawbacks.

but i was about to throw down several thousand for a different vocal mic after growing displeased with my Mojave MA-200.

the other night i did a vocal session with no pop filter and the mic sounded like a million bucks.  easily the best vocal sound i've recorded in a long, long time.  i've done other sessions with the same singer through the same chain (API 312, Purple MC77, Digi 192) that didn't sound nearly as big/full/warm/awesome/natural/whatever.  totally happy with the mic now.


Sometimes it's useful to have a pop filter in order to prevent a nervous and inexperienced talent/actor from moving too close to the microphone...


Or, just arrange the pencil horizontally.


Sharp end out...helps to really teach the lesson.


i'm with icombs, maybe educating people about how to sing into a mic is good. i always sing slightly off axis, no filter; no pop. just don't be retarded and focus on what really matters, a performance. i think that should be a moto.



When it comes to inexperienced actors (not vocalists), sometimes you can tell them not to change their distance and angle to the microphone and it will be forgotten everytime they act. It's hilarious, but also a problem. A taped cross on the floor and a pop filter can help the situation a bit.



indeed! i also think that if a plosive "ruined" your performance, that something else might be wrong with it.

would you rather hear a great performance with a pop, or hear a mediocre performance with no pops?



Indeed, indeed! I have no problems with plosives, they're easy to fix in post.

My example above has little to do with avoiding plosives, and all to do with preventing the actor to eat the microphone and get bass build up due to proximity.
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DCombs

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Re: no pop filter, mix/edit technique
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2010, 09:10:36 pm »

with a ldc, have you tried slightly above the singer's mouth about 6 inches away angled down into the singers mouth? that way airflow never enters into it, unless they sing at it!
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j.hall

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Re: no pop filter, mix/edit technique
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2010, 10:21:02 am »

i've turned the mic itself 45 degrees off axis from the singer.  kinda the same thing you describe.  works well, but in some situation can yield and "thin" sound.
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iCombs

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Re: no pop filter, mix/edit technique
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2010, 05:02:49 pm »

Basically...any means of getting the microphone out of line of a direct blast of air while still pointing it and your singer's mouth...good place to start.

I personally prefer up over the mouth (so that the bottom of the mic is about at their eyebrows with a hanging LDC) and pointing down...it feels like you get a little more chest resonance from that sort of position (because it's pointing more in the general direction of the chest) than if you were to point it in from a side...just my experience.
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Ian Visible

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Re: no pop filter, mix/edit technique
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2010, 11:20:32 am »

I like it up and over with no shielding also, but from one or two feet away.

Sounds natural to me.

DarinK

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Re: no pop filter, mix/edit technique
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2010, 12:28:55 pm »

The main problem with up & over & close is that the vocals can sound nasally, like the vocalist has their nose plugged.
A foot or two away straight out front works best for me, IF I can keep the vocalist at that distance.
Maybe I should construct a fake pop-filter, of material so porous that it will be useless for pops but will also have minimal effect on the sound, then just use that to "place" the vocalist.  Or maybe just an empty hoop to sing through. Smile
(I've tried the "dummy mic" but having a 58 directly in front of the mouth can make things sound muffled.)
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grantis

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Re: no pop filter, mix/edit technique
« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2010, 10:18:15 pm »

Ian Visible wrote on Fri, 12 February 2010 10:20

I like it up and over with no shielding also, but from one or two feet away.

Sounds natural to me.



I agree that this can work...but as hard as I crush lead vocals, the room has to be DEAD in order to pull it off.

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Grant Craig
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Ian Visible

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Re: no pop filter, mix/edit technique
« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2010, 09:46:13 am »

That's a fair point.

I tend not to compress heavily so it's not such an issue for me.

Josh McArdle

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Re: no pop filter, mix/edit technique
« Reply #42 on: February 17, 2010, 02:01:16 am »

I used an R122 on backing vocals the other day and got some PUHretty awful PUHlosives from about a foot away, even with a pop shield. Ended up with the top of the ribbon at chin height about a foot and a half away and tilted just off axis.

I like it there sometimes, aimed at the throat. My lead guitarist has quite a nasal voice, so that sort of position, with a little cut at 1k helps to balance it up. A bit irrelevant but since we're discussing puhsitioning... Very Happy



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Fenris Wulf

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Re: no pop filter, mix/edit technique
« Reply #43 on: February 23, 2010, 07:48:22 am »

I put up an SM57 as a dummy mic, tell the singer to aim at the SM57, and I put the real mic next to it at an angle of about 20 degrees, pointed at the singer's mouth. It's as close as possible without being hit by the airflow.
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