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Author Topic: Was Jim Morrison a good singer?  (Read 29535 times)

Edvaard

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Re: Was Jim Morrison a good singer?
« Reply #30 on: December 30, 2009, 02:53:01 AM »


All good and well that we have the understanding that we do now, but thank goodness for Jim Morrison and The Doors and Arthur Lee and Love for doing the 'Andrew Jackson' in the swamps to clear the way.

Unless you think that you have a better machete than they had.



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Sean Eldon Qualls

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Re: Was Jim Morrison a good singer?
« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2009, 11:30:34 AM »

JJ, again, I agree with you that he has undoubtedly gotten better with age. I just still think he was born with "it" and got more comfortable with "it" as time went on.

"Hey kid...you got the goods!"
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Sean Eldon
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Nizzle

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Re: Was Jim Morrison a good singer?
« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2009, 01:43:23 PM »

J.J. Blair wrote on Tue, 29 December 2009 11:26

Nizzle wrote on Mon, 28 December 2009 08:02

J.J. Blair wrote on Sun, 27 December 2009 14:45

Jim had a good voice/instrument.  He was not a good singer, though.



What does this mean?

-t


Well, it means that he had a nice sounding voice, but his singing technique was pretty crappy.  His pitch wasn't terribly good, and his control was kinda weak.  Contrast that with somebody like say, Elvis Costello.  Elvis does not have a good voice, but that guy has become a phenomenal singer, whose pitch, tone and control are extraordinary.  Or contemporaries like David Clayton-Thomas or McCartney, who have the entire package of instrument and technique.  

So, if the question is "was JM a good singer?"  Definitely not.  He had an excellent sounding voice though that worked in the context of the Doors, and his delivery was convincing.  But if you listen to somebody with a similar tone,who really IS a great singer, like Ian Astbury, you hear the difference.  Ian has great pitch, great inflection control, etc.  It really emphasizes how weak Jim's technique was.  Listen no further than "Touch Me" to hear how it's all style and attitude, and pitch and technique are very questionable.

But it was druggie rock, and it was fine for what it was.  His crappy singing technique was no worse than Manzarek's mediocre keyboard playing, or Krieger's mediocre guitar, or the shitty "poetry."  All together, it was the Doors' sound, and it worked. It was unique, interesting, and a hallmark of that era.  Some of the songs were quite good, sufficiently hooky, and the production great enough that they are still around.  His voice is instantly recognizable, and the power and tone have a charisma that is very attractive.

But he's not a good singer.  He's an OK singer.


No offense, pal. But it sounds like you have a hair across your ass with regard to The Doors, in general Smile  - like so many do. Jim communicated and had, IMHO, a KILLER voice and did with it precisely what was needed to communicate. Now, if we are going to bring up Elvis Costello as a metric to adjudicate a rock singer's ability - well, we can cross pretty much everyone else off the list. Vocally speaking, Elvis - starting with Blood and Chocolate(which is one of my favorite rock records of the 80's AND, for me, has one of the best lead vocals ever committed to tape - "I Want You") and in full vocal glory from Brutal Youth(terribly underrated record)on - Really came into his own, vocally, around this time. He is FULL ON CROONING. Some may find his vibrato excessive and compulsory BUT he's been singing his ass off for a good long while. I'm a HUGE fan.

Back to Jim -

I would argue that his intonation, control, and feeling were just fine. Fine, indeed. He could belt it out in one moment and then immediately get into his lower register without issue. He was about abandon and feeling. That's it. I and many others feel it. It seems to me that many, many folks don't dig what The Doors did. I, for one, do. Also - mentioning Ian as someone with a "similar" voice to Jim's and further implying that he does "Jim" better than Jim is gross, to me. I should also mention that I, generally, think he sounds like a poser most of the time.

I am very aware that I'm in the minority here, but I've always found it to be a drag when an artist(s)gets called out on their idiosyncrasy's to further one's assessment of their art, when the real issue is that he/ she doesn't like the art and is pissed off that the general public adores it. I've harbored similar feelings about many other artists.

JJ - I hope I've communicated my thoughts in a way that don't offend. You have always been a great source of information and humor to me both here at PSW and when I worked with you. In the end and the way I see it - I dig the Doors and Jim, and you do not. That's the beauty of art. Viva la difference!



xo
-t




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breathe

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Re: Was Jim Morrison a good singer?
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2009, 01:53:20 PM »

I've had religious experiences listening to The Doors since I was 14, and Jim's voice is a HUGE part of that, maybe 90%.  I never felt that way about EC records.

Nicholas


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Edvaard

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Re: Was Jim Morrison a good singer?
« Reply #34 on: December 31, 2009, 03:49:34 AM »


But Jim Morrison was just a poet, so automatically discredited.




Right.
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Edvaard

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Re: Was Jim Morrison a good singer?
« Reply #35 on: December 31, 2009, 03:55:20 AM »


Autotune has done more than just affect recordings, it has now infested every sense of musical awareness.

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0dbfs

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Re: Was Jim Morrison a good singer?
« Reply #36 on: December 31, 2009, 03:01:47 PM »

Nizzle wrote on Wed, 30 December 2009 13:43


Back to Jim -



He did what he did quite well IMO. No comment on his technical ability. I don't feel like it matters too much as long as the delivery and story are compelling.

I got a bit burned out listening to the doors but will have to pull out an LP or two before the year is over in order to revisit JM's particularly endearing vocal charisma as we move forward.

I think I dropped a windowpane at his graveside in my youth. Unfortunately they wouldn't let me into the cemetary with my guitar. Many years later (sans windowpane) I had the great opportunity to second on a session with RM, X w/Zoom & John Doe in a recording of Crystal Ship.

There is a good article on Bruce Botnick in the recent Tape-Op if you haven't read it which details some of The Doors recording sessions.

Cheers,
j
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Jonathan Burtner
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Edvaard

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Re: Was Jim Morrison a good singer?
« Reply #37 on: December 31, 2009, 11:38:42 PM »

Autotune has done more than just affect recordings, it has now infested every sense of musical awareness.

People with not a single class of music theory or any musical ear training at all now feeling as if entitled to comment only because of good facility with some latest audio toy, or otherwise supposedly adept critical comment thereby (aside from the fact that you can look at it on a screen now, which allows amateurs into the fun, because it can be -proven-  visually what their ears were incapable of from the start).

Sometimes people just want to say what they want to say, autotune be damned.



Pardon the musical perspective.

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wwittman

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Re: Was Jim Morrison a good singer?
« Reply #38 on: January 01, 2010, 03:02:01 PM »

rationalisation is a marvelous thing


okay, try this:

name a band you LOVE, with records you LOVE, but who you think has a BAD, or only adequate at best, singer



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William Wittman
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hargerst

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Re: Was Jim Morrison a good singer?
« Reply #39 on: January 01, 2010, 03:26:31 PM »

Since I designed their amps, I had the pleasure/misfortune of seeing the Doors many times.  Their shows, and Jim's performance, could range from terrible to brilliant.  I walked out of the first two shows I saw, thinking they were a cover band doing Doors songs badly.  

But, I saw shows that blew me away, and that included Jim's singing.  The Doors were very erratic, but Jim could sing - when he felt like it.
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Harvey "Is that the right note?" Gerst
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Edvaard

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Re: Was Jim Morrison a good singer?
« Reply #40 on: January 01, 2010, 04:37:36 PM »


The point is that pinstriped precision of intonation does not, of itself, indicate good or bad singer. There is the total presentation.

As for good singers with less than perfect intonation, McCartney comes to mind.

OTOH, I've heard singers that I can hardly stand to listen to, even them having close to perfect intonation.

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itsapleasure

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Re: Was Jim Morrison a good singer?
« Reply #41 on: January 01, 2010, 08:12:40 PM »

wwittman wrote on Fri, 01 January 2010 15:02

rationalisation is a marvelous thing


okay, try this:

name a band you LOVE, with records you LOVE, but who you think has a BAD, or only adequate at best, singer






Neil Young.  Terrible singer and guitarist, but THE BEST singer/guitarist for what he's trying to convey.
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Edvaard

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Re: Was Jim Morrison a good singer?
« Reply #42 on: January 01, 2010, 08:46:30 PM »


Bob Dylan, as mentioned earlier.

But he was a pretty fair guitarist, actually.

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Jonah A. Kort

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Re: Was Jim Morrison a good singer?
« Reply #43 on: January 02, 2010, 07:55:26 AM »

wwittman wrote on Fri, 01 January 2010 14:02

rationalisation is a marvelous thing


okay, try this:

name a band you LOVE, with records you LOVE, but who you think has a BAD, or only adequate at best, singer






mewithoutYou

he can sing, just not is a technically "good" or "great" way

butttttt

0dbfs wrote on Thu, 31 December 2009 14:01

 the delivery and story are compelling.



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MagnetoSound

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Re: Was Jim Morrison a good singer?
« Reply #44 on: January 02, 2010, 08:07:20 AM »

itsapleasure wrote on Sat, 02 January 2010 01:12

Neil Young.  Terrible singer and guitarist, but THE BEST singer/guitarist for what he's trying to convey.




I guess you could add Dylan to the list, if you see things that way.

When I was a kid I used to think that Dylan couldn't sing. Honky, nasal, squawky voice.

Then I realised that those who think so, can't hear what is   there.

Neil Young is a phenomenal singer (and guitarist) to my ears. Dylan too.

Emotion/conviction win out over technique every time for me.


YMMV.

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